If they cant get the count right, what else is wrong?

[genlock]

I changed from Democrat to Independent last year.
In Wayne and other southern counties, It is not worthwhile to be a Republican.
As an Independent, I can now vote in my choice of the primaries (Rep Or Dem).
I am not bombarded with campaign crap in the mail .
I still am a conservative, but I am not too sure what that means anymore.
I am more sure what liberalism means and it sort of scares me.
BTW: the clerk in Wayne says that a surprising number of voters switched
party affiliations to independent, but I don't feel affiliated with anybody.

[Bob Campbell]

Are you righties pissed that the early going of the stimulus seems to be having a positive effect?

[genlock]

Putting several Trillion dollars into the economy has an effect?
Brilliant! I wish I could have thought of that.
I am just sort of waiting for the taxes to zoom.

[Bob Campbell]

And you would have done what?....

[fearpeddler]

how about instead of giving the money to companies, they could have given the money to the actual "taxpayers", not the welfare mongers but the people who actually work and are having issues paying their debts, thus eliminating the problems at teh source.. instead the rich just got richer...

[Hoosier Daddy]

how about instead of giving the money to companies, they could have given the money to the actual "taxpayers", not the welfare mongers but the people who actually work and are having issues paying their debts, thus eliminating the problems at the source.. instead the rich just got richer...

I said that in the beginning. Pay off my house. Or my credit cards. Give ME the extra spending capital to inject into the economy!

[CoolBreeze]

And you would have done what?....

Let the whole thing collapse and start over, that's what! This country has needed a good economic enema for a LONG time, and nothing but a complete removal of all the gunk piled-up on this economy is going to bring that about.

[Jet Black]

Dittoes. We have bankruptcy laws here for a reason. We should have done nothing, let the failures fail, let the market work, instead of changing and/or superceding all the rules. Bush did wrong for the right reasons, but Obama's just using it to further his socialist goals. The so-called stimulus bill was an outrage, and very little of it is going to even hit the roadway this year. The market tanks, the market picks itself up. Nancy's mouse-saving project is going to do very little for the American economy. Wasn't it Ira Gershwin that wrote, Let It Rain And Thunder, Let A Million Firms Go Under; I Am Not Concerned With Stocks And Bonds That I've Been Burned With? We should have taken our lumps, but now we've let Obama and his minions change the direction of the rudder, and the future tax he's saddling us with now is going to be a terrible burden. And for what? For his socialist programs and ideas, not specified now, but funds already funded in the billions while the opposition was weak. Dirty politics, to my eyes, but Socialists believe the ends justy the means, right? Lord, all those trillions of borrowed Chinese bond dollars, for nothing but buying more obligated Democratic voters. If Bin Laden had control of the White House, wouldn't he destroy us from within by bankrupting us? Wouldn't that be the most efective way, disrupt the markets with higher taxes and class warfare and unpredictible rules; bankrupt the treasury, and make it useless for wealthy people to create more wealth? I tell you truth, I'm scared.

[Hoosier Daddy]

In theory, I don't disagree with you, Jet. I guess the question is how many millions of innocent, hardworking American citizens have to lose everything they own to allow the market to correct itself. How many Hoovervilles will be created? Do all those people who end up being punished bear ANY responsibility for the high level wheeling and dealing that created this mess? Or are they innocent victims and pawns of money and power-hungry corporate executives and government officials who either played along or were alseep at the wheel when the bus crashed.

I don't care about the corporate upper crust. They've done quite well for themselves in spite of the mess. I really don't care too much about the stockholders -- after all, you knowingly take a risk when you choose to invest, and we're right back to that "asleep at the wheel" thing. I DO CARE about the millions of people who depended on these companies for employment or for retirement; people who worked hard and are going to lose everything, Enron-style, because the kingpins played fast and loose with the law and company money. We can't afford for everything to collapse. We can't afford the massive amounts of public assistance we'd have to provide, and we certainly can't afford the costs of maintaining law and order when you cut 150 million people off from that public assistance, which would be the next big outcry. It's a massive increase in government spending any way you design it.

I think what President Obama is doing is working. It'll be expensive, but so was digging ourselves out of the Great Depression. The alternatives are unthinkable to me, because it isn't simply a matter of letting Chrysler fail, or letting CitiBank go down the tubes. Everything is too connected. If you can't remove the tumor without slicing the Aorta in half, then you look for other alternatives. Obama's plan isn't perfect. His detractors will alternately claim he hasn't done enough or he's doing so much he's driving the country toward socialism. Neither are true. Obama's been in office less than three months and he's trying to fix a crisis in the making for (at least) the last 15 years. I think he's on the right track and I wish him the best.

[Jet Black]

What has Obama done so far that actually stop the middle class person from losing his whatever? Nothing. If the middle class man is in trouble it's because he lost his job or lost his investments. Everything that Obama's class warfare plans point to is discouraging to future investing, which causes more job loss and lowers the value of investments. I think Obama must understand this already.
-
If Obama wants to revolutionize this economy and strike a positive blow for America and America's proletariet, and make his place in history, I say: Fair Tax. If the Republican party wants to get back in power, then they ought to embrace the Fair Tax in a big way. (Or the Flat Tax - let's have some serious national debate.)

[AmpedNow]

We had discussions at length on this board about what an Obama presidency would mean for the country. I concluded that he was the better candidate, although it would be a risk. I punched the button beside his name, feeling like I was playing Texas Hold 'em rather than voting for a president.

It didn't take long to realize that the moderate's nightmare was unfolding fast. This guy's a true believer, going for every thing he possibly can in four years, as I think he is willing to toss aside a second term if he can lay the groundwork for his vision in the first term. And they way things are going, he will be a one termer.

There are things he deserves credit for, like his Iraq withdrawal plan and the Somali pirate situation. Sorry, but the people who can't acknowledge this are partisan hacks.

But overall, I didn't vote for this...

His economic overhaul will break us all. Printing one trillion dollars and releasing it onto the market all at once? Hyperinflation will be a big story this time next year. Call it the second wave of the recession waiting in the wings.

Spending 10 trillion more? There is not any amount of jobs and development than can possibly make up the difference. We already have 6 million less jobs now than we did this time last year, and the unemployment wave is still cresting. That's already less tax revenue going to the government, yet we're spending far more money now.

I think what we should have done is create a fund of at least 2-3 trillion to serve as a backup reserve for the banks and financial institutions to draw from if they need it, mostly to back people's retirement accounts. And also to help them keep lending to responsible borrowers. They shouldn't have to suffer because of greed and mismanagement of a few companies. Let the grossly irresponsible ones fall. Use the excess funds to support badly-needed highway and infrastructure projects.

The only problem with simply allowing the market to correct itself is that it won't come back fast enough for the people who were ready to retire, but now can't because their savings was wiped out. These accounts need to be protected and backed.

Second, smack down the credit card companies and other predatory lending companies. Put a cap on the interest rates they can charge people. Nailing people who have the least ability to pay with the highest interest rates amounts to indentured servantude. Set an interest cap, not to exceed more than 100% of the total debt. Conversely, limit the amount they can allow these people to borrow. This keeps the people who have no money from borrowing money they can't pay back, and keeps the temptation for lending companies to take advantage of and abuse these people at bay.

If it's ok for billions in corporate debt to be wrote off, then we need to allow the same for some private debt as well. The debts ran up by the people who can't pay will never be paid anyway, so why not write it off, and allow the numbers to work through the system. However, this should be a one time deal. New lending practices should make it harder for people to run up massive debts in the future.

Require a minium 20% down payment on a home. No more ARMs, period. If you can't afford it, you don't get it. This will keep the house flippers from running real estate values to unsustainable levels in certain markets, i.e. Northern VA and Southern CA.

Create tax credits and deductions across the board on a sliding scale. Get rid of capital gains and death taxes completely. The jobs and economic growth this will spurn will help to make up the massive deficits.

Allow two years for everything to work through the system, then we should be ok.

The only problem with my plan is it still keeps most of the power decentralized out of Washington and the economy rolling along relatively unobstructed... Because at the core, this is a massive power grab.

[Bob Campbell]

Well, I think the last few posts show why none of us are in charge.

[Lee]

I honestly cannot see how Mccain/Palin would be any better.

Seriously, are some of you THAT blind to see that?

Palin could have one/another Vietnam War story away from being THE PRESIDENT!

And some of you gripe and moan about Obama.

[Mike]

The news media is part of the establishment, NOT a check and balance on it, as intended by the Constitution. The fact that the dominant media needs drool buckets when talking about Obama is disgusting.

Fortunately the Internet has made it impossible for them to be the SOLE arbiters of what people can know, unlike 20 years ago, which is something they greatly resent, and is the reason why their power is waning faster than this economy.

What I really want is a news media that goes after democrats with the SAME ferocity as they go after republicans. Real journalism is only even attempted with republicans are in power.

What we need are REPORTERS. Not editorials masquerading as news. WITNESS something. Tell people what happened. NOT what you think about it. Opinions should reside ONLY on the editorial page.

And, yes, I am glad McCain lost. Though I love Palin. McCain would be doing almost everything Dear Leader Obama is doing, although slightly less bad, but the republican party would be getting the blame and damage for it (and by implication the conservative movement). Better for my side in the long run that all this gets tagged "D" and fails. Horrifically. Tragically. But inevitably it will fail. Socialism fails everywhere and every time it's tried.

[Lester]

There are things he deserves credit for, like his Iraq withdrawal plan...

You mean the one that is shockingly identical to the plan Bush had, even down to the "we'll see" clause?

Iraq was a done-deal by the time he took office. Afghanistan is the quagmire all the Dem's have been looking for... now that the Russians are getting involved.

[Mike]

There are things he deserves credit for, like his Iraq withdrawal plan...

You mean the one that is shockingly identical to the plan Bush had, even down to the "we'll see" clause?

Iraq was a done-deal by the time he took office. Afghanistan is the quagmire all the Dem's have been looking for... now that the Russians are getting involved.

The worst actually will be Israel. Which President Teleprompter takes a stronger stance with than he does, uh Iran, a nation led by jihadist madmen which is developing an atomic bomb and HAS sponsored or directly committed terrorist acts against Americans in the past.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/obamas-s ... -aa90.html

Everything Obama has done so far with respect to Israel, the Muslim Jihad, and his complete lack of any pretense towards Christianity has only added fuel to the fire that he is in fact a muslim by birth, He bowed to the Saudi king. He boasted of Islam's contribution to America (here is the major one: the skyline of New York City). He said that America is NOT a Christian nation... Despite the fact that Christianity is the major influence in our founding...

Could Obama be the antichrist? Well, he DOES go out of his way to style himself as some sort of messiah.

Christ didn't need a teleprompter. Neither does anyone else who actually is honest and believes what they say.

[AmpedNow]

I honestly cannot see how Mccain/Palin would be any better.

Seriously, are some of you THAT blind to see that?

Oh, I seen that... That's why I didn't vote for him.

McCain turned out to be a very weak candidate. In many ways, this was 1996 replayed, only worse.

Even the "ditzy" Palin running as president would've got more votes.

You mean the one that is shockingly identical to the plan Bush had, even down to the "we'll see" clause?

Iraq was a done-deal by the time he took office.

You mean the 18 month stepdown plan with the final date of 8/31/10? Strange, but all I recall is the insistence of "not setting a timetable".

At this point, we've done everything we could possibly do for Iraq, except maybe to continue mentoring the new government. And that doesn't take 140,000 troops. So now, I have no problem with leaving.

Afghanistan is the quagmire all the Dem's have been looking for... now that the Russians are getting involved.

This worries me... The history of warfare in that country has been brutal. And with the Taliban on the rise again, we have fewer alliances within the country to aid us in tactics and intelligence.

He better have a damn good plan before he sends our troops into that mouth of hell.

Never mind Iraq. This will be our 21st century Vietnam if we're not careful.