Attention rock PDs!

[Lee]

Is anyone else pissed off about this seemingly new round of tween bands (i.e. The Jonas Brother, That Chick From Drake and Josh on Nickelodeon, Miley, The Naked Brothers Band, etc?) By 7 year old loves it. Is there an adult market for any of this crap or are we being forcefed this shit to appease our children?

the new GnR kick balls! "Chinese Democracy" is well worth the 46 year wait!

The old men are showing the rip-off bands like Airborne, Trivuim, and Buckcherry how it's done!

Again, I am 1,000% with you on that. I have only heard the single off of Chinese Democracy and it is seriously good.

Meh.

Things go in cycles. The Partridge Family, Menudo, El Debarge, Hanson...same crap, different decade!

Dude, I implore you to check out the "leaks" of the studio versions of the songs. "Chinese Democracy" is this decade's "Black" album.

[Jay Nunley]

There's a monumental library of rock hits from the 70s-present that hardly get any airplay, if at all. The 80s are hardly represented in rock radio...at least around here. Alot of the 80s bands had more hits than what's played on the radio nowadays. Heck, alot of the 70s rock bands had more hits than what's played on the radio now. With that many songs at one's disposal there should be no need to play the same songs every two hours.

Are these titles you are talking about still popular today? I don't care if they were hits yesterday. Are they still hits today? Please give me three examples of songs from each era that should be played that are not.

What station, day, and time did you hear the same songs get played every two hours?

Again, I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. I'm asking these questions for the interest of the discussion.

My problem isn't that Nickelsuck is played so much....my question is WHY is it played so much? Why do people like this band?? And why is Hinder so popular?

It's easy for one to play armchair PD...but dude...why the oversaturation of crap??

For the same reason we still have to hear about the Beatles and why Nirvana was so popular. People have shitty taste in music. This is why Titanic was such a popular movie and why American Idol is such a popular TV show. By and large, people love crap.

These bands being mentioned -- Nickelback, Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy, Creed, etc -- give me access to the genre. I like them. Without them, I'd never find a way in.....

Which is why many "rockers" reject these bands. They are right on the line between rock and pop. Pop people consider them rock. Rock people consider them pop. The average listener (most of whom have no such identification) do not know or care about genre. They just like what they like. The hard part of programming a rock station is not playing so much of this stuff that your P1s and Super P1s rebel. However some of the P1s and a great portion of P2s love this music, so you have to give it to them. The great news for rock formats is that these "lines" are fading. An even better development is the old fight bewteen "new" rock and "classic" rock is totally gone now, save for the few holdouts whom are an insignificant number.

Yes, Seattle stuff sucks.

Alice In Chains and Soundgarden belie that statement. Pearl Jam (except for their first album) and Nirvana support it.

Yes, Beatles suck(ed). They suck, they suck, they suck.

Fuckin' A. They were the first boy band. They were never rock. They were never geniuses. They innovated nothing. They did not write great songs.

This is not an invitation to get into the same old argument with Beatles fans. Just go out a buy the new rehashing of the same old crap they'll inevitably put out soon and leave everybody alone. Dillweeds.

[Ace Purple]

The first single from Chinese Democracy is getting some spins on the Nashville rock stations. It's not GnR in their prime, but it is a good song IMO.

As far as music programming goes, Jay is exactly right. Want personal preference? Listen to your iPod. Want to win in radio? As Bob Campbell wrote, play the hits. The HD2/HD3 channels out there could end up as a good minor league system of sorts for stations that play new music (with some HD stations going with all local music, such as KGSR-HD2 in Austin, TX). But on the FM dial? Play the hits. Even if it's Nickelback and other bands that you may not like.

[Lee]

Are these titles you are talking about still popular today? I don't care if they were hits yesterday. Are they still hits today? Please give me three examples of songs from each era that should be played that are not.

70's
KISS -- Beth
Alice Cooper -- Only Women Bleed
Three Dog Night -- Joy to the World

80s
Poison -- Fallen Angel
FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad
Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

90s
Cranberries -- Zombie
Oasis -- Wonderwall
Garbage -- Stupid Girl

I could probably think of more, but these ones come to mind...

What station, day, and time did you hear the same songs get played every two hours?

All of them?

Hearing Led Zep's "Black Dog" then hearing Led Zep's "Rock 'n Roll" in two hours gets to be unbearable. Granted, they're different songs but they're the SAME DAMN BAND!!!

These bands being mentioned -- Nickelback, Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy, Creed, etc -- give me access to the genre. I like them. Without them, I'd never find a way in.....

Which is why many "rockers" reject these bands. They are right on the line between rock and pop. Pop people consider them rock. Rock people consider them pop. The average listener (most of whom have no such identification) do not know or care about genre. They just like what they like. The hard part of programming a rock station is not playing so much of this stuff that your P1s and Super P1s rebel. However some of the P1s and a great portion of P2s love this music, so you have to give it to them. The great news for rock formats is that these "lines" are fading. An even better development is the old fight bewteen "new" rock and "classic" rock is totally gone now, save for the few holdouts whom are an insignificant number.

I consider the above to be just "rock."

[Lee]

As far as music programming goes, Jay is exactly right. Want personal preference? Listen to your iPod. Want to win in radio? As Bob Campbell wrote, play the hits. The HD2/HD3 channels out there could end up as a good minor league system of sorts for stations that play new music (with some HD stations going with all local music, such as KGSR-HD2 in Austin, TX). But on the FM dial? Play the hits. Even if it's Nickelback and other bands that you may not like.

I don't argue with playing the hits.

Whatever happened to playing the "big hit" by the "#1 Band" at say...8:30am, then, play it again at maybe 12:15pm, then play it again at around 5:15pm? Ya know, spacing it out?

[Ace Purple]

The great news for rock formats is that these "lines" are fading. An even better development is the old fight bewteen "new" rock and "classic" rock is totally gone now, save for the few holdouts whom are an insignificant number.

Classic rock still seems to be a strong genre, in no small part I suspect because of the M25-54 numbers that it can draw.

Here in Nashville there is one classic rocker (Clear Channel) and two "everything that rocks" type formats (Cromwell and Cumulus). This doesn't happen by accident. There are some stations that use 1990s grunge rock as the gold to go with new rock (I'm thinking 105.5 The Vulcan in Birmingham, 97X in Tampa, etc.) but it's been 15+ years since Pearl Jam and Nirvana broke on the national scene -- thus making it a mix of old and new.

[Jay Nunley]

I asked for these examples so we could be specific instead of talking in generalities.


KISS -- Beth

Not a primary cut, but does get some airplay.

Alice Cooper -- Only Women Bleed

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


Three Dog Night -- Joy to the World

Not rock. Oldies.



Poison -- Fallen Angel

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar.



Cranberries -- Zombie
Oasis -- Wonderwall
Garbage -- Stupid Girl

All "alternative" titles that do not appeal to enough 25-54 males to warrant airplay on a station aimed at that demo.

All of them?

I'm looking for specifics.

Hearing Led Zep's "Black Dog" then hearing Led Zep's "Rock 'n Roll" in two hours gets to be unbearable. Granted, they're different songs but they're the SAME DAMN BAND!!!

O.K. Taking into account the average TSL (both per occasion and number of occasions) What is the proper artist separation?

These bands being mentioned -- Nickelback, Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy, Creed, etc -- give me access to the genre. I like them. Without them, I'd never find a way in.....

Which is why many "rockers" reject these bands. They are right on the line between rock and pop. Pop people consider them rock. Rock people consider them pop. The average listener (most of whom have no such identification) do not know or care about genre. They just like what they like. The hard part of programming a rock station is not playing so much of this stuff that your P1s and Super P1s rebel. However some of the P1s and a great portion of P2s love this music, so you have to give it to them. The great news for rock formats is that these "lines" are fading. An even better development is the old fight bewteen "new" rock and "classic" rock is totally gone now, save for the few holdouts whom are an insignificant number.

I consider the above to be just "rock."

My point.

[Jay Nunley]

I don't argue with playing the hits.

Whatever happened to playing the "big hit" by the "#1 Band" at say...8:30am, then, play it again at maybe 12:15pm, then play it again at around 5:15pm? Ya know, spacing it out?

Give me an example of station, day, and time where a heavy rotation song on a rock station was played more often than that.

[Jay Nunley]

Here is some hard data (it's important for me to be specific too).

Top Five Most Played Currents on WKLC (week of 11/17/08)


Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy 25
Metallica The Day That Never Comes 23
AC/DC Rock N Roll Train 20
Staind Believe 16
Theory Of A Deadman Bad Girlfriend 16


Now, do the math.

There are 168 hours in a week.

Subtract 21 hours (Bob and Tom/Issues Programming)

That leaves 147 hours.

That's a 5.88 hour separation between plays for the most played song. You'll also notice that only the biggest, most popular, most well known, core artists get that much play.

Do the math for Staind and it is a 9.18 hour separation.

[Jet Black]

(Retracted - too goofy.)

[Arp2]

Hire the prettiest, metrosexiest guys who can play three chords, hire some songwriters...VIOLA! You have Nickelback!

These bands being mentioned -- Nickelback, Journey, Foreigner, Loverboy, Creed, etc -- give me access to the genre. I like them. Without them, I'd never find a way in.....

Which is why many "rockers" reject these bands. They are right on the line between rock and pop. Pop people consider them rock. Rock people consider them pop.

Oh, I know....I'm just saying that every genre needs entry points. You know, like Creed and Nickelback, Kenny Chesney and Taylor Swift, Beyonce and John Legend, Kenny G and Jim Brickman, and mandatory "Music Appreciation" courses in college.

[reeves]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

[Jay Nunley]

Oh, I know....I'm just saying that every genre needs entry points. You know, like Creed and Nickelback, Kenny Chesney and Taylor Swift, Beyonce and John Legend, Kenny G and Jim Brickman, and mandatory "Music Appreciation" courses in college .

Fuckin' A. Again.


Viola. Ha!

[Lee]

I asked for these examples so we could be specific instead of talking in generalities.

KISS -- Beth

Not a primary cut, but does get some airplay.

It was KISS' most popular single until "Forever!"

Alice Cooper -- Only Women Bleed

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

How so? It was a Top 20 hit in 1975. One of his best known songs.

Three Dog Night -- Joy to the World

Not rock. Oldies.

Again, how so? I'm not sure what year the song was released. Late 60s-early 70s I assume. But some songs that are played on rock radio today were released around that same time. So what's "oldies" and "classic rock?" If that's the case, Zep should be played on oldies stations, too.

Poison -- Fallen Angel
FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad
Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar

All three songs were at least Top 20 songs in their respective heydays. And if your demo is 25-54, all 30 year olds and above should know these songs. Unpopular and unfamiliar according to who?

Cranberries -- Zombie
Oasis -- Wonderwall
Garbage -- Stupid Girl

All "alternative" titles that do not appeal to enough 25-54 males to warrant airplay on a station aimed at that demo.

Again, former Gen X'ers should know these songs...your demo, right? These songs were on ACTIVE ROCK charts in their respective heydays.

I'm not saying play all former rock chart toppers from the 70s, 80s, and 90s...throw a bone or two from time to time to break up the monotony.

[Lee]

Hire the prettiest, metrosexiest guys who can play three chords, hire some songwriters...VIOLA! You have Nickelback!

That's a CELLO!!!

"Viola" is one my "inside joke words" that I use from time to time.

SHUT UP!

[Lee]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

Reeves, I hate you.

[AmpedNow]

This is why I listen to alternative... The format doesn't rely on the past as much as the present.

While certain trends come and go (emo stuff being in now), the overall direction is forward, and not being afraid to experiment with new sounds.

Of course, the 90's core stuff still holds the format together, but it doesn't dwell on them.

Nickelback and creed are a big controversy in alternative radio, too. Big guns like KROQ won't touch them, while some alt rockers will. Guess it depends on what part of the country you're in...

Then there's the Metallica controversy. The Death Magnetic stuff is getting a lot of airplay on alt radio, although there's no way Metallica could ever be considered alternative... It's amazing it even tests well, if you think about it. I'm waiting to see if the new GnR gets alt airplay as well...

Active rock to me sounds too much "same". It's the same heavy guitar riffs and grunting vocals. Either that, or it leans too far in a gold direction. I'm not saying I don't like any of it. I just can't listen to it on the radio for mare than 15 minutes without getting bored.

Then again, one of my best friends loves active, and that's exactly what she wants. She can't stand the "wimpy, lame" alt stuff. We have fun converstions at times.

[genlock]

I don't listen to any of it.

[Big Media]

I get excited for new music that I know is going to excite my listeners -- like new AC/DC, Metallica, and Guns 'N Roses. And for that, I'm very excited for this new song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nieNQNUoS1o

That is a hit.

That's an abomination. Nickelback blows.

Poison -- Fallen Angel

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


FireHouse-- Don't Treat Me Bad

Unpopular and unfamiliar.


Def Leppard -- Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad (granted, it came out in 91...)

Unpopular and unfamiliar.

You have GOT to be kidding me. Dude, I am in your target demo and those are three of my favorite songs from those respective artists.

[Jet Black]

Rock is dead.