Discussion/Debate

[Jay Nunley]

It’s been a long time since we did a debate/discussion on actual broadcasting that didn’t have to do with the slow death of the industry.

Ted Williams spurred an idea for a discussion.

First, let me say I was not surprised to find a bunch of comments on All Access and other places bitching and moaning about this guy getting job offers with so many people on the beach, and blah, blah, whiney crap, blah.

I am not jealous of Ted Williams for be offered cherry gigs I could never get. He chose a better career path than I did. I should have gone with full on alcoholism and drug addicted homelessness instead of slaving away doing three or four jobs at once for one salary and pulling ratings miracles out of my ass with no resources. His idea was better than mine. Also, his voice is MUCH better than mine.

With that out of the way here is how he gave me an idea for discussion.

In one of the interviews he mentioned some guy telling him about radio being “theater of the mind.”

If you have been around radio for more than 10 days, at least one douchebag has said this to you. This is one of many steaming piles that somehow continue to lie around what’s left of the radio business.

Radio is not theatre of the mind. EVEYTHING is theater of the mind. Everything we perceive through any of our senses is done in the mind. You might as well say radio is TV without pictures. Radio is audio performance. That’s all it is. That’s all it has ever been.


Here are a few more of the giant steaming piles that drive me insane. I invite everyone to add to the list as part of the aforementioned debate/discussion.


“Talk as if you are speaking to one person.”

Listen, assbag. You’re talking to an audience of multiple people. You better hope and pray there is more than one person listening. Talk as if you are speaking to multiple people. Why? Because you are talking to multiple people. The multiple people listening know you are talking to multiple people. You’re not going to create intimacy with all that “you” and “your” crap. You create intimacy with your audience by talking to them, giving of yourself, and knowing them as well as you can so you can talk about the things that interest them.


“Stopsets need to run a few minutes past the quarter hour marks so you get credit for two listening occasions.”

That’s just howl at the moon stupid.

99.9999999999999999999999999999 percent of diary respondents do not report listening down to the minute like that. I have seen hundreds of diary returns. I can’t recall a single one that reported listening from 10:00a to 10:17a or other such anal nerdism.

Also, the whole concept is based on the idea that people automatically tune away at stopsets. The last bit of quality research I saw on this shows much lower instances of tune out than any of us ever expected or dreamed. If the stopset has three or less units the tune out is negligible.


“60 second commercials should come before 30 second commercials in a stopset.”

I have heard at least three different theories over the years on why this supposed wisdom is important and I even bought into one of the theories until I actually thought about it and it hit a huge number on the Nunley Bullshitometer.

Listeners don’t know the difference and wouldn’t care if they did. The one and only thing they ever notice in stopsets is unit count. Also, they count promos as commercials, so all of you who limited stopsets to four units, but allowed for a promo did yourselves no good. You had five unit stopsets.


“When giving the temperature use two different cities and slightly vary the number because it will make the station seem more in the know and seem larger.”

What this actually does is create more useless verbiage that bores the listener and only serves to make the announcer feel more like he or she is on the radio. Unless temps are wildly different in two areas just give the temperature. You’re much better off giving your listeners information they actually want like “It’s raining in Huntington now and still dry in Charleston.”



Jump in, bitches. I know I can’t be the only one with a list of these things.

[genlock]

how about " say something different"?
Don't lead with the same shit day after day.
When I listen, I stay on a station till I am annoyed.
By the program or by the talent,
WSAZ weather people say that they are "going to set you up for your day".
Makes me want to throw up. Written on a Magid report, probably.
I also hate commercials that repeat the same phrase or phone number over and over.

[Dave Harman]

I just want to know where the rule is posted that all traffic reporters must refer to "black ice". I've seen clear ice, invisible ice, white ice, and missed seeing ice covered by snow until it got uncovered by my ass, but I've never seen black ice. And isn't the rest of the ice dangerous too?

[Big Media]

“When giving the temperature use two different cities and slightly vary the number because it will make the station seem more in the know and seem larger.”

Yep. When I worked in radio, we had to give a separate temp for Huntington, Ashland, Ironton, and one other shit town of our choosing (my favorites were Burnaugh, Pedro, and Argillite). We did this twice an hour. All of the temperatures were completely made up based on the temp at the studio at the time we read the forecast. The whole thing was completely unnecessary, similar to "exclusive WeatherChannel forecast" when there were 5 other stations run out of the same building giving the same "exclusive." God.

[amayo]

Early in my career, I had an Ops Manager tell me not to use "we'll be back" or any variation of the phrase. His reasoning was that you aren't really going anywhere, so you're lying to the listener. Since I was about 12 years old (sic) and didn't know any better I tried to refrain from the useage. After some experience I realized what a sanctimonious dill-hole he was, and forgot all about it.
To this day--NO ONE has ever commented on this or mentioned it to me. Proves some programmers in small markets are real yutz's.

[reeves]

“Talk as if you are speaking to one person.” -- I know what you are saying, of course you are talking to more than one person. However, for beginners, this is important. I know this from experience, when I first went on the air back in the late 90s (I did that for you Jay). I was all about "you guys" "folks" "everybody." I had sooo many damn cliches, but then it was my dad who said just pretend you are just talking to your best friend -- he's in the studio with you and you are telling him about this promotion, this song coming up, etc...It helped me be more conversational...more natural (all things I'm still working on)...but it's something I tell new people...

“Stopsets need to run a few minutes past the quarter hour marks so you get credit for two listening occasions.” -- agreed a thousand percent...just do your best to sweep the top and bottom of the hour because that's when people are moving around -- leaving work, going to work, etc...

“60 second commercials should come before 30 second commercials in a stopset.” -- agreed, just lead with good sounding stuff first, and maybe a good one at the end too...

“When giving the temperature use two different cities and slightly vary the number because it will make the station seem more in the know and seem larger.” -- agreed.

Add to the list:

Even though we are still a little guilty of this (only :30 minutes versus :60): special features at lunch time.

I am all for request hours...show your audience you are local, in the studio, etc.

However, I think dropping your format for :60 minutes at lunchtime is old school and doesn't work...People don't want the 80s Lunch or the 90s at Noon...They just want to hear who you are...The reason I turn on this station is what I hear from 6 a.m. to Midnight...it's not that 60 minutes while I'm at lunch.

[chloesdude]

and missed seeing ice covered by snow until it got uncovered by my ass, but I've never seen black ice.

I'm gonna use this later in life. great quote...

[Mr. Jones]

Here are a few more of the giant steaming piles that drive me insane.

*slow clap*

[amayo]

The temperature thing reminds me of Phil Donahue. He said when he broke into radio his greatest ambition was to give the temperature at TWO different airports. He figured if he made it to a city that large, he'd have it made!

[Clay JD Walker]

Pardon my generalities in this discussion...I don't wanna hand over my playbook to Bob...but...

In one of the interviews he mentioned some guy telling him about radio being “theater of the mind.”

Totally...the angle I come at with imaging/over the top promotions/etc is to paint a picture in the mind...the prize doesn't ever matter, it's the mechanism and what you do after you have the promotion.

“Stopsets need to run a few minutes past the quarter hour marks so you get credit for two listening occasions.”

This changes totally in PPM. Hard quarter hour marks at 00, 15, 30, and 45.

just do your best to sweep the top and bottom of the hour because that's when people are moving around -- leaving work, going to work, etc...

Usage varies by market, so this sorta applies, but not totally.

“60 second commercials should come before 30 second commercials in a stopset.” -- agreed, just lead with good sounding stuff first, and maybe a good one at the end too...

There's a bigger reason behind this that will have a huge global effect in a metered world. Content...matters...always.

Even though we are still a little guilty of this (only :30 minutes versus :60): special features at lunch time.

Sorry reevis...granted, we're in different worlds, and formats, but when you cut on my brand I want you to immediately know what my brand IS. When my usage is at its highest (like in peak middays, etc) I want everyone, casual listeners to P1s knowing what is the definition of my radio station. Again, Planet is a different animal, and usage is very, very different from mine. Benchmarks aren't very important to me...globally my brand is as close as it can be in AM drive to overnights.

...show your audience you are local, in the studio, etc.

They don't care. Content is content. If you suck in VT hours and are great live, you need to focus on getting your jocks up to speed on VT methods. Phones and phone bits are out dated...

The one and only thing they ever notice in stopsets is unit count. Also, they count promos as commercials, so all of you who limited stopsets to four units, but allowed for a promo did yourselves no good. You had five unit stopsets.

Don't stop...don't stop the music, don't stop anything...ever. When you have to, make it as pain free and quick as possible. Your audience disappears the second there's a hint of a stopset.

Again...speaking in generalities here. The major theory I will continue to stand on is usage. How do listeners use your product and why? The PPM world has shown all of us across the country that most of us were wrong thinking people really want to hear a long, flowery promo, or the fact that we 'play rock that really rocks' or any of that bullshit we've bought into over the last century.

my dad who said just pretend you are just talking to your best friend

Agreed...1000%. Would you ever walk up to your best friend and begin a conversation with him or her '94.7 WPUD, home of the Wacky and Steve morning show and the most music while your work?'

So here's some of mine I'd like to throw in the discussion:
Don't forget where you came from...never buy into your own hype
One small change has a global effect on the brand
Changing on piece of imaging, music, talkset placement, etc...it all has a global effect.
Real matters...be real as often as possible
You're not the Dougger...don't be him...those days are gone. Listen to my station and you'll hear that Clay JD Walker is the same guy as the one with the real name.
85% of the time, bits are not funny. We are not Letterman, who has a staff of writers...focus on the other things that make you a good jock, but thinking you have to have a funny bit at every break is dangerous...
I fell into this in WV. Jay busted my balls terribly at Planet, and I reverted back to that at WQBE. My idea of a great show balanced in the number of phone calls I got during my multiple bits and topics. Listening back to the airchecks, I realize how stupid they were, and how I could've really gotten more out of my other strengths.
Eliminate all tune-out factors
Have a station style guide and stick to it
Newspapers and TV stations have them, so why should radio not have one? Mine defines my station sound and presentation, flow, attitude, and in particular the technical things that most people over look (like the standard for importing music and imaging, mic techniques, processing, file formats, et all). Everything...everything matters, I don't care what you say...
Take notes every day and prioritize
Carry a notebook on a clipboard and dedicate a page per day to the tasks at hand. Divide that page in a way that shows different priority levels for projects, then take 30 minutes at the beginning and end of each day and seriously examine each task. What's the most pressing task? The on air product...what immediately effects that takes high priority over any bs promotion that a sales manager needs back 'yesterday'. Never, ever tear any page out of that notebook, because there will be many times you will want to know what you did and why...
Image is everything
Another stolen from Jay's playbook: no matter where, and what you're doing, the brand should be on your mind. Example: I tip very well...too well most of the time. Why? Because I leave my business card in the check wherever I go. I want people to know who I am, and that I'm a good guy. I've witnessed jocks who 'forget' to tip at a bar gig...and it made him or her look like a pud. How you talk to people in the grocery store matters, how you drive in traffic matters.
No wives, no girlfriends
This is another from Jay. I got slack on this point last year, and it nearly cost me my job (so I thought). She will come to events and demand that you spend the bulk of your attention on her, not on the reason why you're there. I don't care how cool your girl is, it's going to happen. She knows that your career is different than others, but damnit she has to work a regular job and we don't get to go out much, so by God you need to hang with me while I get drunk and make a fool out of you.
Jay, you should be really, really ashamed to know me. However, we parted ways because of that issue right there (among quite a few others...just sayin').

OK. Time to get ready for war this morning. Go ahead and call my format gay, or say I'm a doucher, that's cool. I'm just blessed to have programmers in my past that busted my nuts to get where I am now. Every single day I wake up and jump in the truck to go to the station is a great, amazing day. I fear the day when it goes away.

Know your audience...live the lifestyle, don't fake it. Listeners see through it.
Never, ever touch the music (thanks, Jay).

[Nate G]

A PD that I used to work for used to say, "The music is the star", when justifying not letting you talk for more than :30. Whether or not you believe that, don't ever say that to me. As far as I'm concerned, I am the star. That's why I'm in this business. In order to be in this business, I believe, you have to believe that a little.

[Dave Loudin]

How about not playing two female artists in a row? I got that directive during my 15 minute training session.

[Bob Campbell]

While I usually agree with every word that comes out of Jay's mouth (or keyboard), and I definitely agree with most of this, I have a couple points.

1. Theatre of the mind. The idea behind that phrase is that you should be telling a story that puts the pictures in the listeners' heads. Description, color, emotion, time and place. All things that video does just by turning on the camera, you have to do with sound. Yes, Everything is sort of theatre of the mind. But theatre, tv and movies have multiple senses to get their message across. Radio has to provide the same sort of impact using only sound. When I speak to classes I make this point. In a video presentation, you can read body language, see where everything is, hear the speaker. In person you can do even more. On radio, sound is it. That's why we call it theatre of the mind.

2. Talk as if you're speaking to one person. Yes, there damn well better be more than one listening, but the ones who are listening are individuals. They're not all gathered in a stadium listening. Most of them are alone. So, in effect, you are speaking to one person and you have to connect with them intimately. All the best do it.

3. The multiple cities thing was relevant in a diary world. It relates to impressions the listeners get. It's all part of the memory game that we played until last year. In PPM world, quality content is all that matters. It's really all that mattered in diary world, but it was easy to game that system. Now we're figuring out how to game the PPM system.

4. Nate, I guarantee I wasn't the PD who said that to you.

[Nate G]

Haha, no, Bob. Not even close.

[Bar Rat]

A PD that I used to work for used to say, "The music is the star", when justifying not letting you talk for more than :30. Whether or not you believe that, don't ever say that to me. As far as I'm concerned, I am the star. That's why I'm in this business. In order to be in this business, I believe, you have to believe that a little.

That's why I prefer doing sports

[Hoss]

Come on TV folk, chime in. My personal blood boiler is “TV is just radio with pictures” usually uttered by a management suit that never produced anything and thinks reality TV is shot with one camera. TV has many types of programs but all of them hinge on visual story telling complimented or enhanced with the sound. That’s why entertainment shooting ratios can be anywhere from 10 to 1 to 100 to 1. Yes an audio performance coupled with video story telling done by professional and talented individuals makes it look easy but kick that suit out of the edit bay and bless those TV news folk that know how to make the audio and video work together.

[Hoss]

OK, that didn't get any traction, how about the suit that promises we'll go LIVE but doesn't know an uplink from a downlink much less the microwave oven from microwave truck?

[genlock]

TV has changed a lot since I retired, but the one thing that hasn't changed is
the tendency of things to change at the last second. That makes the poor
schlub on the air look like an idiot and most of the control room laughing.
Those that haven't been replaced by robots or computers anyway.
The guy on the air just reads the prompter. He may never have seen the copy before.
It's harder than it looks. Nice hair is required.

[Swing'n Dick]

I'm VERY entertained by this thread!

[Schaffer]

I too was taught by the wise (and often assholish) Nunley. I am lucky to be one of the few who has not been out of work one day since my first full time gig a decade ago, and make a great living doing what I love. A lot of my success is due to Jay beating many of the above points into my head on a daily basis. I really enjoyed our air-checks where he would play the same break 54 times in row until I got the point that I sucked. I now use that on my guys and they f**king hate it. Thanks Jay!

1. The best one I ever heard was "Don't ever talk over the birds at the end of Layla." I have been told this by multiple people, one PD that threatened to fire me over the issue. This may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Unless youre radio is turned up, this is DEAD AIR! (Thank God I don't have to play that song now...problem solved thanks to active rock)

2. I have been told by a couple of people that the three cities weather dealio equates to a band saying the name of the city they are playing. People love to have their particular town aknowledged. This is true, but why must it be during weather? It's easy to slip the name of local towns into on air conversation, if you cant, it may be time to take a second look at what you do for a living.

3. This one is mine: "Breaks must be a certain length." Not even in the same universe as real radio wisdom. A bad 10 second break is still a bad break, it's not good just because it was short. On the flipside, an awesome 2 minute break that blows em away still blew em away regardless of length. Say what you have to say, know before hand what your OUT is, and prepare. Make it tight and to the point, people want to hear the music. If it's good in a minute, it can be great in 40 seconds. That being said, there is no time limit on great, well planned talk breaks when you know your OUT.