DTV Question...

[Lee]

57 channels and nothing on is an understatement.

So, I'm thinking about dumping cable/satellite altogether and getting just free HD over-the-air. My question is, how do I do it?

My TV is a 42'' Toshiba with a built-in DTV tuner. Will I need an outdoor HD antenna to pick up 3, 8, 13, and 11 or would regular rabbit ears suffice? I live in Coal Grove, OH in a well..."suburb" without any trees or anything blocking signals

[fearpeddler]

with your tv, any old antenna will work since the converter is already built into your set...

[Lee]

Sweet.

[Dave Loudin]

Lee, head to tvfool.com to check out your reception possibilities. Quick user tips:

1) Use the "start maps" option. On the google map that comes up, drag the receive site pointer to right over your house (zoom in as necessary).

2) If your're not sure where you will put the antenna, try different antenna heights at this point. The predictions update each time you change the value.

3) If you want to share your results, note the URL to use on the radar plot page.

[Dave Loudin]

Judging from a few sample sites, you definitely will need an outdoor antenna with as much height as you can muster. WCHS and WVAH will be problem children.

[Tom Taggart]

Most new HDTV sets are deaf as a post (or, for TV, would that be "blind as a tail-less mouse?). Also, except for WOWK, all the stations have moved to UHF.

Depending upon how high you are, you could get a set of rabbit ears at Radio Shack and see what you can find--if your set locks to anything, then you may not need much for a consistent picture. An outside antenna mounted inside (in an attic, for example) may work.

Otherwise, count on outside antenna plus antenna booster.

[Lee]

I've read reviews about different antennas on Amazon, Best Buy and Radio Shack's websites.

If I can get 3, 8, 11, and 13 good enough with rabbit ears rather than an outdoor antenna with an amp, that'd be great plunking down around 10 bucks than 40+ for antenna/amp.

However, if I can't get what I want with rabbit ears, I have no problem plunking down the cash for an outdoor mounted antenna, I just want the free HD!

For those of you with a setup like this, any models you'd recommend?

[Dave Loudin]

Lee, please start with the TVFool plot. It will define the requirements that your antenna must meet. We can narrow your choices that way. I will absolutely guarantee, however, that you will need at least a medium-gain outdoor antenna to see WCHS and WVAH, as they are shadowed by the hills to your east.

[Big Media]

I agree with Dave. You are looking at about 50 air miles from WVAH, WCHS, and WLPX... those are your furthermost towers. Rabbit ears just won't cut the mustard. I did some signal testing over in your area and was able to get all the channels on a bow tie style antenna, but this was outside, in the open, in a parking lot with no obstructions (I tested at a small shopping plaza in downtown Russel, KY). I would try this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=3766859

[Dave Loudin]

That pulls in 13? Bow-tie arrays can pull in VHF-Hi channels, but most, if not all commercial models use elements that are too small to work well for those channels.

Modelled and tested bow-tie arrays optimized for VHF-Hi and UHF that are simple to build are documented here.

[Big Media]

That pulls in 13? Bow-tie arrays can pull in VHF-Hi channels, but most, if not all commercial models use elements that are too small to work well for those channels.

Modelled and tested bow-tie arrays optimized for VHF-Hi and UHF that are simple to build are documented here.

Your right. I should clarify. My signal testing was performed prior to the analog shut-down so 13 would have been on their temporary digital channel.

[DosPrompt]

the Channelmaster 4228HD is one of the best performing antennas in our area. I have recommend it to people for several reasons .
It has a wide viewing angle , It is not to expensive, It receives channels 7-69, is only about a 4 ft by 3ft footprint.. and most importantly ..IT WORKS


Solid Signal carrys them
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=4228-HD

[genlock]

A small antenna with few elements will have wide bandwidth (many channels).
A large antenna with lots of elements will have narrow bandwidth (fewer channels or problems with gain nulls).

[Dave Loudin]

the Channelmaster 4228HD is one of the best performing antennas in our area. I have recommend it to people for several reasons .
It has a wide viewing angle , It is not to expensive, It receives channels 7-69, is only about a 4 ft by 3ft footprint.. and most importantly ..IT WORKS


Solid Signal carrys them
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=4228-HD

Beware, there are lots of comments about the 4228's feedline and balun design. Check out this article for details and suggested hacks.

[Greg Goodfellow]

Even though I live on a hill, I'm still in a 'bowl' type area. Bob Eddy, former co-owner of 93R and I tried with three different antennas to determine a good site. After many efforts, including a Winegard Platinum Series/Ultimate Series antennaI got for 50 bucks (used only a couple of weeks-from my future son-in-law's family with the original price around $150.00), we could get only WTAP for a couple of seconds. This antenna is HUGE! I do have to contend with quite a few trees. Folks lower than I with a massive hill to contend with probably get slightly more channels.

Bob and I will try again when the trees are fully leafed out. Obviously, I'm probably relegated to stacking MUCH tower. My uncle, two houses away and probably no more than 50 feet higher in elevation gets all the locals. However, I think he has fewer trees to contend with, and no other hills.

This is PROGRESS?

[AmpedNow]

Several hundred dollars in equipment for average West Virginian just to get all of the "local" DTV channels, yet the distant channels on DBS are being systematically phased out everywhere.

Screw all of that. I would rather not watch TV at all than go through all of that trouble.

You anti-choice nazis. The internet will eventually be your demise.

/rant


Anyway, on the maps, I noticed certain stations over my location listed as EDGE1 and EDGE2. Some were even listed as TROPO, with TX locations well over 100 miles away.

Anyone care to explain what this means in detail? I assume the Tropo stations would be nonexistent, unless there was tropo conditions...which leads me to wonder why they were even listed.

[Lee]

You engineering types are giving me brain meltdown!

Basically, I'm just looking for an antenna that brings in the aforementioned channels.

[genlock]

3,8 and 11 are really not on those channels, 13 is on 13.
So you need a single channel 13 antenna and a uhf antenna.
Or an antenna that does both. 3 is on 23, 11 is on 19 an 8 is on 41.
Where you live has a great deal to do with reception.
Check with your neighbors and see what they are using for antennas.
If they are on cable, they may give you their antennas and tower.
Give me a ballpark on where you live and I will try to see what's up

[genlock]

TV fool plots your case as follows:

Antenna height 30 feet assumed.

wowk 13 due ease strength -68Db
wsaz 23 due east strength -71.4Db
wvah 19 due east strength - 83.6DB
wchs 41 due east strength -88.3 DB
I have no idea of the sensitivity specs of modern tvs or converter boxes.
Next time i was in Huntington,I would check with electronic supply for antennas.
A basic cable hookup probably is you best option.
You live far enough back that semi-distant hills block the signal.

[Dave Loudin]

The quality figure to use on a TVFool plot is the "NM" (noise margin) column. Zero is the noise-limited field strength, so if you could ideally catch that with no losses, then you could decode it. To account for receiver noise and fading, the real NM target should be +10. Add more if you have a long coax run without a preamp.

Now, for Lee's report here. The three from the same tower (WSAZ, WOWK, and WQCW) should be a relatively easy catch. Noise margin is 20 or more, so a modest VHF/UHF (look at the real channel column!) is all that is necessary. WCHS/WVAH is a whole different story - noise margin is only 3 or so. For these, a much higher gain UHF antenna is needed.

The scariest part of the report is the path for everything but WPBO: 2-edge. This means these signals must be scattered over two ridges before getting picked up which adds more fade margin requirements (click on a station in the list to see). The bottom line: it's doable, but complicated.

First, for WOWK, you need an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 ($27 on-line). For all the other channels, you need an Antennas Direct 91XG ($53 on-line). Mount the Y5-7-13 at least 4 feet below the 91XG and tilt both antennas upward a few degrees. Combine their outputs with a USVJ combiner, then run the coax to your receiver. If your cable is more than 50 feet, then also get a pre-amp (Winegard AP-8700 for $35 on-line should do).

Solidsignal.com will be your friend