WXBW flip

[djsandman]

With WPAY gone, it's actually not a bad idea. I wish somebody in this market would at least "fill the void" of Z-Rock and play some alternative, esp. 90s alternative.

[Shanen Wright]

I agree...there is a big hole for rock in Charleston. A 90s-based alternative format like DC101 would be nice. Here's how I would do it if I were WVRC:

- Move ESPN Radio 1490/104.5 to 680/95.3.
- Launch rock on 1490/104.5. Historically, 1490 was the original home of Z-Rock back when it was satellite metal years ago. You could even call it Z-Rock again.

The AM wouldn't likely garner much, but the 104.5 translator has great reach across the valley. At its height 94.5 was pulling near a 4. Might turn some revenue...

[Bob Campbell]

And thus hope to become one of the few successful Alt stations in America?
Sorry, Alt as a format is for all intents and purposes, dead.
It does not perform in PPM markets. DC 101 survives on a strong morning show. It's a one share station when it's playing music. Z-rock never made a dime in Charleston. Granted, it wasn't sold properly, but the format is a tough sell at best. After beer and bars, where do you make money?

[Kiddconley]

After beer and bars, where do you make money?

Payola?

[Cameron]

My friend Dave in Wilmington, NC has a Classic Country webstream and even at 48Kbps, AAC+ it sounds better than Bob, Buck, Steer, or WTF.
(...and you have title/artist).

Rooster Classic Country

http://www.roosterradio.us

I encourage everyone to listen and screw up his bandwidth!

After I finish my thin client project, Radio Free Mooresville will go 24/7.
(...Country NOT in playlist - EVER)!

Fair warning.

[AmpedNow]

And thus hope to become one of the few successful Alt stations in America?
Sorry, Alt as a format is for all intents and purposes, dead.

Sadly, I won't argue against this for the most part... But it's not true everywhere.

In L.A., the #1 revenue market in the country, there are two alternative rockers: KROQ and KYSR. In February, KROQ had a 3.3 with a cume of 2 million. KYSR had a 2.6 with a cume of 2.1 million. That's a total 6 share and 4 million ears for the format. Those numbers shouldn't be a hard sell, by any stretch.

Intrestingly, L.A. has been void of active or mainstream rock since the early 90's... But they do have classic rock, JACK, and triple A.

Check Philly and Houston as well.

It does not perform in PPM markets. DC 101 survives on a strong morning show. It's a one share station when it's playing music.

DC has never been a rock town. Urban/rhythmic has always been that market's "country".

As a result, DC 101 has always had its own sound tailored to DC. I don't think their playlist would work anywhere else.

Not taking anything away from Elliot. He's had quite a run there. When he started in the mid-90's, he had both Stern and the Greaseman on separate CBS stations to compete with. But he made it, obviously.

Z-rock never made a dime in Charleston. Granted, it wasn't sold properly, but the format is a tough sell at best. After beer and bars, where do you make money?

I always thought Z leaned more active than alternative... If not, then they were a definitely a "hard" alternative.

But remember, the format was never big in WV. Sadly, this area missed out on most of the 90's "revolution". There was some great stuff that came out of that era, that still stands the test of time.

Even though it's old enough to be classic rock/gold, it's still largely absent from the local airwaves.

Locally, the rock format is still stuck in the 70's and early 80's. It would be nice if someone would try 90's-based rock for a change.

[EZ103.3FM]

I was driving from Charleston to Huntington yesterday afternoon after dropping off my wife at the Charleston airport. I thought it would be a good time to re-do the radio buttons. I hit the current button where I had 101.5 and (I'm not kidding) the song that was on was 'Foggy Mountain Breakdown' by Flatt and Scruggs. Now I don't really care for country much at all but I like a well-played instrumental from any genre so I listened to the rest of it. Then some twangy old country vocal came on and I redid the buttons.

I like my buttons in order L to R so I moved KEE to button #5 replacing 101.5.
97.9 moved from #3 to #4.
97.1 moved from #2 to #3.
94.1 moved from #1 to #2.
WV Public Radio moved into #1 - it's been on the FM2 row.
105.1 remains on #6.

[Bob Campbell]

Amped, you correctly point out the few successful major market Alts. Noticeably, they are heritage stations with dominant morning shows. And hey, if you can't win with Alt rock in LA, you can't do it anywhere.
Charleston/Huntington just doesn't have enough population in the target demo to make money with the format.
And Z-Rock in Charleston, while it was poorly run, wasn't really about making money anyway. It was about cutting off enough of Rock 105's low end so QBE and 102 would continue to beat them.

[djsandman]

FWIW, I am disappointed with the lack of modern and retro alternative rock in this market. I live in Charleston and while 106.3 does a decent job with alternative rock, their signal just isn't that good on this end. Great tower, but too bad they can't pump in some more juice.

And for Rock 105, they're just all over the map. I know their slogan is "Everything That Rocks" but one day I heard Metallica and right after that, I heard a 70s hippie song...and trust me, it didn't rock!

[Big Media]

I heard Metallica and right after that, I heard a 70s hippie song...and trust me, it didn't rock!

That drives me to the breaking point. I can't fathom how and why WKLC's format works (although, it seems to work just fine). I enjoy modern rock and I can tolerate anything from the late 80s forward, but I loath the hippie shit and want to vomit everyfuckingtime I hear AC/DC. I don't know why, but that band just chaps my sack.

The 70's and early 80s stuff was toned down a bit when Jay was programming, but it has made its comeback with the new PD. I can only tolerate Rock 105 in brief spurts.

[djsandman]

Exactly!!! Same for me as well. Modern Alternative...with some good 90s/2000-ish bands like Fuel, Tool, Sublime, etc. I can even tolerate Nickelback, Daughtry, and older Creed.

I "get" what WKLC is doing, but the 70s stuff has gotta go! Put more emphasis on new rock, and mix in late 80s Hair Bands and the stuff I just mentioned. Overall, they'd be better off with new rock and 90s rock as it is 2011 and even 90s rock is old school now. It's bad enough that the Charleston market has 4 stations that play 70s... WMXE, WKAZ, WKLC, and even V-100! Even though I work in radio, I "gave up" listening to Charleston radio since moving back here in 2006. Z-Rock was the only station worth listening to and yes, they could have done much better.

All I can say is thank GOD for Pandora and Slacker Radio!!!

[Bob Campbell]

See my above post. Not enough young demos for that type of music. It's an old, aging market.

[djsandman]

See my above post. Not enough young demos for that type of music. It's an old, aging market.

Charleston, WV Demographics:

The age distribution was 20.7% under 18, 8.4% from 18 to 24, 27.9% from 25 to 44, 25.3% from 45 to 64, and 17.6% who were 65 or older.

Hmmm...wouldn't that highlighted demo represent a "young demo" for that type of music?

[Jay Nunley]

I love that we have this discussion about rock every year. Seriously. I'm not being a smart ass.

I've even learned how to shave the word count down on my end by a few thousand.

First, I should say I have no comment about WKLC or their new program director other than to say it seems to me like he is doing just fine.

WKLC is a fun ship to drive. It would take 12,000 words to explain that fully. In any case, this is about rock programming in general and not about WKLC.

Believe me I hear ya on all the usual complaints about straight ahead rock stations. There are a bunch of names for that flavor of rock; heritage, mainstream, ETR, and etc.

Other than one song I can't stand Pink Floyd. Either while on the air, listening to a station I was programming or another stick I've had to hear Pink Floyd over 45,000 times. That's a low estimate. It's probably over 50,000.

Do you have any idea how many times I've heard specific titles like Panama, Dream On, Tush, Black Dog, Too Late for Love, and Purple Haze?

90s rock? I love a lot of it. Alice In Chains and Soundgarden are two of the greatest bands of all time and two of my personal favorites. I played a lot of it. WKLC still plays a lot of it. I promise you (based on your posts) you would be shocked to see how much.

We can talk all day about quarter hour scoring, spin rates, title separation, flow, balance, core artists, sound coding, and a dozen other components of programming music on the radio. In fact, I would love to see that exact discussion on this message board. There's a hell of a lot of programming talent posting on this board and we can all learn a ton from each other.

I would also love to see a discussion about the overall culture of rock radio and its listeners, then compare and contrast that to the cultures in the other formats.

Setting all that aside for now, there is one basic thing. It is essentially the only thing.

You target an audience and you play the songs they like.

That's it. That's really it.

Choosing what audience to target and determining which songs they like best is the hard part.

It's still that simple. Play the songs your audience likes best. That is music programming. That will give you a nice chunk of listening all by itself, but if your air talent/content, promotions, and marketing are weak your ratings and your billing will never reach their full potential.

Do not make the mistake of extrapolating your own personal taste and desires onto the rest of the world. Using myself as an example, if I did that while I was programming WKLC you could easily hear a sweep that included Rage Against The Machine, Waylon Jennings, Robin Trower, Natalie Merchant, Dave Brubeck, Black Sabbath, Lunasa, Alice In Chains, and Public Enemy.

That is an extreme example of extrapolating, but it makes a point. Just because you want to hear Blink 182 doesn't mean enough other people do to play it.

Addressing the 90s issue specifically, you have to keep this in mind. There are tons of 30-45 year old males in the Charleston market who love Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Lenny Kravitz, Smashing Pumpkins, and Green Day. This is why WKLC plays those bands. The one thing you may not be considering is those same 30-45 year old males also love AC/DC, Bad Company, Ozzy, and Tom Petty. The 45+ males like them even more and there are five times as many of them.

[djsandman]

Jay...there is no doubt that you know the radio biz, and music as well. I shouldn't have "honed in" so much on 90s alternative music. While I do feel that there is a void of that and other 90s genres in this market, my main point was hearing a Metallica song followed by a hippie song that I've never even heard of before!

Unfortunately, there is not one radio station in the Charleston market that I can listen to format-wise. WKLC is very close but like I said in a previous post, I feel that they're too much all over the map. And I don't mean to sound pretentious, but I have been a DJ since 1987 and I also fall under that 25-44 demo.

[Bob Campbell]

Damn Jay, except for Lunasa, with whom I am unfamiliar, and Natalie Merchant, who I just don't like, I'd be a P1 for you.
And Sandman, you'll find a big disconnect with late 30's and up on new Alt. Like Jay says, they like 90's and the earlier stuff, but they're not going to stick around for new music.

[Lee]

It all boils down to this:

All Rebecca Black, all the time, 24/7, 365 days a year!

[djsandman]

Damn Jay, except for Lunasa, with whom I am unfamiliar, and Natalie Merchant, who I just don't like, I'd be a P1 for you.
And Sandman, you'll find a big disconnect with late 30's and up on new Alt. Like Jay says, they like 90's and the earlier stuff, but they're not going to stick around for new music.

I'll agree with you on the new alt. music. It's just a shame that times have changed, but the Charleston radio market surely hasn't. And I'm really not honing in on alternative music, because at least it's available. As I posted yesterday, it really baffles me that there are at least 4 stations in this market that play 70s music in one form or another.

While I'm far from being a radio programming expert, I'll never forget what a PD once told me...back in the 90s...lmao! It's just radio and not rocket science.

[Jay Nunley]

Jay...there is no doubt that you know the radio biz, and music as well.

There are people who say I know nothing about either. They may be right.

my main point was hearing a Metallica song followed by a hippie song

Listeners, especially rock listeners don't care about segues. Only us radio nerds and audiophiles pay attention to that sort of thing. You can play Master Of Puppets into Against The Wind and the average WKLC user's only reaction would be "Kick ass. Metallica and now Bob Seger."

Unfortunately, there is not one radio station in the Charleston market that I can listen to format-wise.

It's the same for me. WKLC is as close as it gets to satisfaction for me as well.

[djsandman]

Yo Jay...spot on, man! FWIW, listening to Rock 105 now is almost like listening to it back in it's "FM 105" daze. And check this out, as a kid and a radio geek (and still a radio geek!) I'll never forget picking up WKLC in Pittsburgh during the early 80s! They were the only station from this area to make it that far. I tried again a few years later when they switched towers, but I couldn't get them.

Anyways, here's another quick story. I used to work radio with LaDawn back in Indiana. Sorry things didn't work out with her, but it was so weird when I moved back to WV in 2006 and I heard her on Rock 105. I had no clue she was working there and heard her somewhere on the Turnpike and I almost crashed my car! Again, sorry things didn't work out but I had to tell you that story.