Adobe v. Apple = FAIL

[AmpedNow]

What do you all think of this back and forth between the two companies?

Apple refuses to allow their machines to be Flash-compatible, saying that the software causes the vast majority of Mac crashes. They are trying to push the HTML5 format instead.

The problem is that 80% of all video on the internet uses Flash -- including YouTube and Hulu. Most internet gaming sites use Flash as well, including Zynga.

All of this content is totally incompatible the iPhone and iPad.

I don't know if HTML5 is really better than Flash or not... Nor do I really care.

All I know is this decision directly limits my internet options as an iPhone user. If I want to eat through my battery life playing Farmville, then I should have that option. But it really bothers me that I can't, period.

Same with the iPad. How can it be the "greatest web browsing experience" if you're walled out of so much content?

It will benefit the Android platform, however. It will also be a primary reason if I switch to an Android phone after my contract is up.

BTW, I still think the iPhone is the Cadillac of smartphones. It's an awesome device. But imagine how much more it could do if it wasn't purposefully restricted...

[Scott Reppert]

Apples fall. Just remember that principle of reality and apply it to technology. And you can mark my words...

[Bob Campbell]

There was a story in Newsweek about this very subject about a month or so ago, just before the I-Pad debuted. Probably the issue with the I-Pad on the cover. It said that many app makers ( correct term?) are already switching to be compatible with html5 and that Apple may already be winning that battle. I'll have to see if I still have the issue, I'm way too lazy to look online for it.

[Lester]

The iPhone is almost 3 years old, and has not supported Flash all 3 of them. I'm thinking it's still relatively popular.

Adobe also created a great *FREE* Photoshop app for the iPhone. (And it's awesome... and kinda necessary.)

I'm thinking the battle ain't that big.

[AmpedNow]

They say that HTML5 is years away from having the same capabilities as Flash.

While video might start moving away from Flash, interactive games won't anytime soon.

It's not a huge deal, but I don't know why they would just give away that bargaining chip to their competitors... The popularity of Zynga games alone has to create a demand.

Just advertising that you can play Farmville on Android while you can't on iPhone could cause quite a few lost sales.

Then again, Apple never cared much about computer gaming anyway.

[Lester]

Have you seen the App Store? With over 100,000 titles (a large portion, maybe even half of which are games) I don't think they're missing anything due to a lack of Flash support.

On top of that, 100,000 apps is too damn many... so let's throw a million converted Flash "shovelware" titles on there as well.

This would only be a limitation to Apple if they licensed their OS to other vendors... but since they make the hardware, and control the OS, I don't think it hinders them all that much. They'll never beat blackberry, or droid, for the reasons mentioned. They know it, and don't seem to care.

[Scott Reppert]

... but since they make the hardware, and control the OS,

Which is why, one day, you will dread ever having owned an Apple product. Of any kind.

They know it, and don't seem to care.

But not for the reasons you think.

Trust me on this one. Just like Eve, the time is coming when you will pay for having an Apple...

[cgarison]

... but since they make the hardware, and control the OS,

Which is why, one day, you will dread ever having owned an Apple product. Of any kind.

Not really. Have you compared the Android phones to the iPhone? Yes, my Nexus One does everything that the iPhone can do (perhaps even more on some scales), but it is much less polished and definitely fells like it is still a 0.9 version product compared to iPhones 2.x feel. Plus, Google is proud that Android may never have the quality fit and finish that is part of the Apple experience.

And with FroYo in the pipes to be installed on my Google phone, I am not sure if I am going to leverage Flash because of the drain on the battery. I already keep a fully charged spare with me at almost all times just in case I can't find a spot to charge.

They know it, and don't seem to care.

But not for the reasons you think.

Trust me on this one. Just like Eve, the time is coming when you will pay for having an Apple...

Honestly, Apple is paying the price of being Apple. Their focus on not being a computer company and moving into the realm of consumer electronics is allowing HP and Dell catch up in the realm of designer hardware. I am much more impressed with the HP Envy laptops than the latest selection of MacBooks. Plus, I can legally build a Hackintosh out of parts from MicroCenter for much less than current Mac Pro and have a better platform to process photos and produce video.

Even on the phone front, Google matched Apple with the Verizon Droid and leapfrogged them with the Nexus One/Droid Incredible/Sprint Evo. To make things even more fun, Google will have the leg up iPhone OS4 as FroYo is released to the Nexus phone by the end of June. I can't imagine having a companion device any better than my Nexus One with Android 2.2 and its mobile wi-fi hotspot feature when paired with my iPod Touch. (Really sad side note that Google has pulled the plug on direct sales of their phone and will not pursue the release of the Nexus Two.) The only feature that the iPhone 4.0 will have that is not on the current line of Google phones is the front facing camera and video conferencing via WiFi, but that is of no use to many of us who just need a phone.

With all of that said and everything else considered in this thread, I can see the day when Apple is primarily a multimedia company distributing music, video, games, periodicals, and books on an assortment of proprietary platforms with a computer sideline for the Mac enthusiast. Their fit and finish along with focus on quality will keep many users engaged with their products, but electronics and computer geeks like us will spend more time hacking Android phones than playing with locked down Apple products.

[AmpedNow]

Have you seen the App Store? With over 100,000 titles (a large portion, maybe even half of which are games) I don't think they're missing anything due to a lack of Flash support.

This is true, but again, Farmville, Mafia Wars, and all the other insanely popular Zynga games are totally incompatible with Apple devices.

Same with Hulu and YouTube -- although there is a YT app for the iPhone. But you still can't play embedded videos, such as those posted on here.

These sites are years away from a total HTML5 makeover. And why would they necessarily want to just because one company (albeit a major one) has a problem with Flash?


BTW, Wal-Mart just lowered the 3GS price to $97. Besides the Flash incompatibility, this is still an amazing phone. And definitely worth this price.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/24/walm ... t-invento/

Also a sure sign the 4G is only a few weeks away.

[cgarison]

Wal-Mart just lowered the 3GS price to $97. Besides the Flash incompatibility, this is still an amazing phone. And definitely worth this price.

It is also a sign that the $99.00 Motorola Droid specials this spring at Verizon resellers has made an impact. Couple that with the $199.00 Droid Incredible and the release of the Evo on the horizon and this is a step that Apple must take in order to push devices which are not obsolete, but they are definitely behind the curve.

Oh. The Droid army marches on with the new Verizon Moto Droid Shadow (supposedly) being found in a gym.

http://gizmodo.com/5546986/motorola-dro ... und-in-gym

[Lester]

No, it's a sign that the 4G is being announced, and they don't want a surplus of them about. The 3G will be retired soon (if it isn't already), and the 3GS is the new $99 phone for the next year. News of 4G will drop June 7th at WWDC, followed by a release a few weeks later. So the Wal-Mart move is a month early, but it's not unexpected.

Very likely, this could be a kiss to AT&T to lock in more subscribers for the next two years... the rumor of an AT&T-Free iPhone still persists, and AT&T bumping up their cancellation fee to $350 on June 1 only adds fuel to the rumor that they're locking down for an exodus.

[fearpeddler]

people have been figuring out how to "unlock" iphones since they've been out, and with sprint and verizon already offering 4G service in some areas it might be a good move for apple to go "unlocked" and branch away from at&fee.. I've played with both phones, (iphone and droid) and dont really have a preference, but I do not like AT&Fee, just an annoying company to deal with... So when I finally jump into the world of smartphone ownership it'll most likely be with a droid.

[cgarison]

Very likely, this could be a kiss to AT&T to lock in more subscribers for the next two years... the rumor of an AT&T-Free iPhone still persists, and AT&T bumping up their cancellation fee to $350 on June 1 only adds fuel to the rumor that they're locking down for an exodus.

Which is why I am keeping unlocked, non subsidized devices and not signing a new contract as long as I can. Currently, I have no plans to leave AT&T in the next few years now that I have the Google device on their network, I want the freedom to jump to another carrier if I wish.

[AmpedNow]

people have been figuring out how to "unlock" iphones since they've been out, and with sprint and verizon already offering 4G service in some areas it might be a good move for apple to go "unlocked" and branch away from at&fee.. I've played with both phones, (iphone and droid) and dont really have a preference, but I do not like AT&Fee, just an annoying company to deal with... So when I finally jump into the world of smartphone ownership it'll most likely be with a droid.

When the 4G world arrives, both Verizon and ATT have chosen the LTE standard. Presumably this will mean that their future smartphones could be jailbroken and inter-operable on each other's networks.

With two years remaining of the ATT/Apple contract, this would time out just about right for future LTE iPhones to be non-exclusive.

ATT has kicked their national 3G/4G expansion into overdrive. The number one complaint by far by iPhone owners is lack of 3G service, or slow service in urban areas due to network congestion. (Too many iPhones trying to suck bandwidth off of the same towers at the same time.) This is an area where they are already vulnerable to Verizon, as the holiday ads last year proved.

Maybe they will be close to Verizon's footprint by then.

[cgarison]

ATT has kicked their national 3G/4G expansion into overdrive. The number one complaint by far by iPhone owners is lack of 3G service, or slow service in urban areas due to network congestion. (Too many iPhones trying to suck bandwidth off of the same towers at the same time.) This is an area where they are already vulnerable to Verizon, as the holiday ads last year proved.

Now that I have moved from Philly to Valley Forge, AT&T's network faults are really showing up. The community I reside has so many AT&T users that my phones never have the ability to link to 3G so I am stuck on EDGE. The only way to use the features of smartphones in our homes in the neighborhood is to leverage WiFi. (From what I can tell, this is a problem in most densely populated communities in the northwest suburbs.) If I am on the PA Turnpike or traveling along 202 to Wilmington, I have resorted to using my backup RAZR to talk because the towers cannot pass my calls from one another if I am on an iPhone, WinMo, or Android device.

Why have I not switched to Verizon? They are much, much worse. I am now deactivating a leftover Verizon device because it is virtually unusable along the Main Line (Rt. 30 in the Suburbs) between Ardmore and Paoli. Performance along the PA Turnpike is not any better.

[Dave Loudin]

You can use all the Flash you want on a MacBook or iMac. You can't use Flash on mobile devices because there is no official version from Adobe. After promising to be able to run on any iPhone, Adobe now says only the latest mobile processors will have enough heft to support mobile Flash. The FAIL is all over Adobe. Apple is wisely pushing HTML5.

[AmpedNow]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/27/nbc- ... o-flash-t/

NBC and Time Warner inform Apple they'll be sticking to Flash, thank you very much

By Vladislav Savov posted May 27th 2010 1:55PM

When the iPad bandwagon was launched in late January, ABC and Netflix quickly jumped onboard with tailor-made apps, while CBS and others started transitioning their content to HTML5-compliant formats, all in the name of not being left behind by the revolution. As it turns out, however, some content providers will be letting this ride pass them by, at least for the moment. The New York Post today reports that big media heavyweights Time Warner and NBC Universal have turned their noses up at the iPad's high entry demands and will be sticking to what works:
Sources said several large media companies, including Time Warner and NBC Universal, told Apple they won't retool their extensive video libraries to accommodate the iPad, arguing that such a reformatting would be expensive and not worth it because Flash dominates the Web.
According to the NYP article, these conglomerates have been emboldened by the forthcoming arrival of competing tablets from the likes of Dell and HP, and will be seeking their fortunes in the mobile space atop Adobe's winged stallion of web domination that we commonly know as Flash. This is a decision sure to end in tears -- we just don't know who'll be doing the crying when it all shakes out.