How's that Global Warming working for ya?

[fearpeddler]

I find it arrogant of man to think that:

1. He is the cause of global warming/climate change.

2. He has the power to stop it.

I totally agree with ya.

[Lester]

I find it arrogant of man to think that:

1. He is the cause of global warming/climate change.

2. He has the power to stop it.

I totally agree with ya.

Third that.

[Hoosier Daddy]

My "take" on Global Warming:

1. Global warming is real.

2. Our current worldwide lazziez-faire attitude on pollution and global warming does contribute to the problem, but the jury is still out on how much we contribute and what can realistically be fixed. Clearly, there are other forces at work besides human pollution. Small changes in the earth's axis, changes in the magnetic pull of the sun and other planets (causing the earth to move closer to the sun or pivot on its axis ever so slightly) can affect the changes we are seeing, and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do to correct it -- at least right now. Those issues aren't anyone's fault, its simply the solar system aging and evolving.

3. People should do whatever they can reasonably do to make the planet cleaner and conserve natural resources. For me, this means I turn the heat (or AC) down or off when we're not home, we close windows and doors, and use Mother Nature to heat and cool the house (as opposed to firing up the heat pump/central air unit) when possible. We recycle glass, plastics, cardboard and metal. We carpool when we can - saves money, too. We only do full loads of laundry and dishes - saves money, too. I can't afford solar panels on the roof or a couple of wind turbines in the backyard, but I generally support plans to use those forms of energy on a large scale.

4. I recognize companies have a financial interest in maintaining the status quo. Changing large operations over to alternative fuel sources is very expensive, and corporations are designed to care about the interest of stockholders and shareholders. I'm generally not a corporate welfare supporter, but I do believe we should encourage businesses to make that investment where possible and consider tax abatements or some other strategy to push the issue. An investment in this area will eventually trickle down to smaller businesses and to individual families, and we'll all enjoy a healthier environment because of it. Be aware that big business is funding a lot of the "global warming is just a bunch of lies" propoganda out there, because they don't want to be made to spend the money to convert to some other form of fuel and clean up their emissions and waste products after they manufacture their products.

5. We need to research and develop ways to use fossil fuels in a more environmentally-friendly way. We have a lot of coal in this area, and we'll have to continue to use it until alternative fuel sources can be developed. The key is common sense and moderation, something rarely seen from either extreme of the environmental spectrum. My attitude is "we all live, work, and play here, and we all need to do everything we can to keep the planet as nice as it can be".

Done.

[genlock]

It is the sun.
Always has been, always will be.

Hoosiers "small changes" of the sun are really quite enormous and since the sun accounts for 100%
of the energy we have on the earth, what he said makes sense.

I do agree we must not foul our own nest. I further state that the earth is big and heals with remarkable speed.

I do not agree that the world's governments should revolve around faulty or fabricated
scientific studies to, in effect, re-distribute wealth around the globe.

This has turned the question into a mini-religion and fully politicized it to the point
that, one way or the other, any results will never be trusted be either side in the debate.

[CoolBreeze]

It is the sun. Always has been, always will be.

Yep

[Bob Campbell]

I find it arrogant of man to think that:

1. He is the cause of global warming/climate change.

2. He has the power to stop it.

Why is it arrogant? We've changed the world in numerous ways both good and bad in the last 10,000 years.
How do you know we don't have the power to stop it?
At one time it was widely thought that it was arrogant of man to think he could cure polio. At another time it was "impossible" to shorten the ocean trip around the tip of South America. Impossible until we dug the Panama Canal.
It was arrogant to think we could put a human in outer space, the moon was simply never going to be attainable.

I continue to be amused by those here who decry the worth of "science". EVERYTHING that you use in your daily life is due to the very same science you claim "invents" Global Warming. Science is the single most important underlying factor of modern civilisation. You can't pick and choose which parts of it you think are real.
It's like the so-called intelligent design people. The same premises that are the basis for our technological society are what prove the age of the earth. If you think the earth is only 5 thousand years old, you should immediately stop posting here. Computers can't exist. Forget your cell phones, they're not possible. Satellite tv and radio, can't happen. The space program? Never existed.
You don't get to cherry pick the fabric of the universe. It is what it is. The scientific basis for global warming is real, peer reviewed, experimentally repeated and making predictions that are coming true. Until you have an alternative theory that can do that, you have nothing.

ps, mens' downhill skiing events postponed in Vancouver due to slushy conditions from record warmth.

[Lester]

Why is it arrogant? We've changed the world in numerous ways both good and bad in the last 10,000 years.

Agreed. I'm really curious about how we drove animals to extinction before humans populated the planet though.

How do you know we don't have the power to stop it?
At one time it was widely thought that it was arrogant of man to think he could cure polio. At another time it was "impossible" to shorten the ocean trip around the tip of South America. Impossible until we dug the Panama Canal.
It was arrogant to think we could put a human in outer space, the moon was simply never going to be attainable.

Don't hurt yourself reaching like that.

I continue to be amused by those here who decry the worth of "science". EVERYTHING that you use in your daily life is due to the very same science you claim "invents" Global Warming. Science is the single most important underlying factor of modern civilisation. You can't pick and choose which parts of it you think are real.

And yet you're doing so. That same "science" is used to argue AGAINST man being the cause... yet you pick and chose only those scientists that match what you want them to say.

You don't get to cherry pick the fabric of the universe. It is what it is. The scientific basis for global warming is real, peer reviewed, experimentally repeated and making predictions that are coming true. Until you have an alternative theory that can do that, you have nothing.

They exist... you've already proven you don't listen to them though.

ps, mens' downhill skiing events postponed in Vancouver due to slushy conditions from record warmth.

That is the exact opposite of the problem Charleston, SC is having right now.... YOU MUST BE RIGHT!

Here's something to chew on, Mr. "Science"... you said yourself you remember "global cooling" from the 70's. So 30+ years later you've already moved on to "global warming" (even though your own peeps don't call it that anymore). Considering the last *big* ice age lasted about 16,000 years... I think you may be switching teams a little quick. (And to think that you and your fellow man can produce 16,000 years of climate change in 30 years... that is what one might call "arrogance".)

[genlock]

There seems to be evidence of global warming on Venus.
Did the HumVees do that?

[Bob Campbell]

Here's something to chew on, Mr. "Science"... you said yourself you remember "global cooling" from the 70's. So 30+ years later you've already moved on to "global warming" (even though your own peeps don't call it that anymore). from Lester

That's because that's how science works, and it does tiring having to explain it over and over again. When the data changes, the theory changes.
Consider Galileo. He was among the first to state the heliocentric ( that means we revolve around the sun, the sun doesn't revolve around the earth). He was not believed, we all know that story right? As years passed and the data continued to back him up, his theory was accepted. Prior to Galileo science operated on the Ptolemaic theory of the earth being the center of the solar system. At the time, due to the lack of precise enough instrumentation (namely the telescope), that theory most closely fit the observed data. Even then though, scientists knew the theory wasn't perfect, which is why they continued to develop observational techniques to refine their precision. As the new data came in, and could be repeated over and over by experimentation, the Ptolemaic theory was dropped in favor of the Copernican theory, Copernicus being the man who took Galileo's early data, expanded upon it, refined it, and promulgated the theory we now know to be fact.
There are still some scientists who do not accept this theory. There are also some scientists who claim the earth is hollow. Their data cannot be reproduced however, thus making their claims hard to believe. Just like the claims of the tiny minority of scientists (many of whom are not even trained climatologists) who attempt to debunk global warming.
btw, global warming is a term still used by climatologists. It is an effect of climate change. As the data has gotten even more overwhelming to support climate change, scientists have realised that what was initially thought to be the major part of the data, global warming, was instead a subset of the overall data, which points to climate change. That's why the theory can predict greater extremes of weather. Weather is not climate, but an effect of climate.
Climate change theory takes into account a vast amount of variables including historic climatic changes, variable solar radiation, and input from humanity in the form of CO2 and other pollutants. Assessing all this data has led them to the conclusion that the current changes in climate are too drastic to be caused by the natural forces that have changed climate in the past, like solar radiation, advances and retreats of various icepacks and other factors. The factor now present that has never been present before is human additions of pollutants.


I'm really curious about how we drove animals to extinction before humans populated the planet though. Lester again.

Cute attemtp to deflect the argument away from the fact that you have nothing to back you up. Nobody's ever claimed that, other than you, just now. Maybe you have some evidence?

[fearpeddler]

the "theory" may have changed, even though all that did was the name, but its still a b.s. theory.......

[cgarison]

From liberal Philly, an article with a reference to the little ice age that was experienced during the time of the revolution.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homep ... n_Ben.html

[Lester]

Jeepy... talk like that is unacceptable. You might want to watch your back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... enial.html

[Bob Campbell]

Wow, Climate change supporters got threatened too? Even those within our own government?

Now the Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... heobserver

[fearpeddler]

fix your link bob......

[Bob Campbell]

If only I knew how. That appears to be the whole link. I'll keep at it. It worked for me earlier.

Hey, I'm a theoritician, not a technician. This is when I usually call the IT guy.

Let's try this one
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/prog ... index.html

[DJSHOCKLEY]

If only I knew how. That appears to be the whole link. I'll keep at it. It worked for me earlier.

Hey, I'm a theoritician, not a technician. This is when I usually call the IT guy.

Let's try this one
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/prog ... index.html

Really no use in trying to educate these folks Bob.. If there is one thing that i have learned about those that blindly follow the so called "Conservative movement," even though they are not that conservative at all, it just sounds good to them, it's that they do not want to be educated.
Any evidence that proves that they are wrong is considered "Liberal"...
Any evidence that comes from their rightwing heros is the truth...
Even if it is a bi polarmoron like Glen Beck.. Or a corporate shill like Limbaugh...
Sad

[genlock]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/e ... 026317.ece

[genlock]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nised.html

[genlock]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... treat.html

[Bob Campbell]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... treat.html

From said article: "it is quite reasonable to suggest that human activity may have had some effect on climate.

There is no doubt that careless and greedy exploitation has done much damage to the planet."