Haiti: Let it sink into the sea. What a hell hole.

[CoolBreeze]

I was watching the BBC news this morning around 6am. The very first images of the destruction in Haiti was being broadcast. The first thing I noticed was that NO ONE WAS DOING A DAMNED THING BUT STANDING THERE. SOME WERE EVEN SMILING FOR THE CAMERA.

No one lifted a finger to try to pull rubble off of people trapped. No one gathered water or blankets or food. No one did a damned thing but look around as though it was just another day in paradise. I've never seen anything like it.

I guess they were waiting for BIG DADDY to come in there and take care of everything.

[Bob Campbell]

Actually, that is the normal reaction for people involved in a disaster. It's called "disaster shock". For a period of hours to days after a tragedy of that magnitude the victims are so shocked and traumatized by the disaster that they have exactly the reaction you saw, blank stares, numbness and an inability to cope. Victims of 9-11 looked much the same, as have victims of large scale disasters throughout history.

[CoolBreeze]

I knew you'd come up with that old excuse. These people were NOT in shock. You can see shock on peoples faces. These people looked like they were ready to break out in dance! The only thing missing was food and music. No, these people weren't even involved with the buildings collapse. They came from shacks etc that really didn't suffer much damage, being on the ground floor. THEN I heard some woman complain that they didn't even have an emergency room in their city. How can ANY large city not have an emergency room, even if very rudimentary? Don't worry, we'll build em the finest emergency room that American taxpayers can afford.

[Lester]

That was my take on it. Who were the EMT's before we called them EMT's? Someone could be doing SOMETHING... instead, they're standing around waiting for help.

That is the most corrupt island in the Caribbean. It is poor because it chooses to be. People are kidnapped and killed on a regular basis.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help, but think about the big picture as we're doing so.

[DJSHOCKLEY]

That was my take on it. Who were the EMT's before we called them EMT's? Someone could be doing SOMETHING... instead, they're standing around waiting for help.

That is the most corrupt island in the Caribbean. It is poor because it chooses to be. People are kidnapped and killed on a regular basis.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help, but think about the big picture as we're doing so.

Ummm... Big picture eh???? How about some context on how Haiti "Chooses to be poor'???

Ur probably not gonna find much about that in a realistic historical examination..

However, an examination of U.S. foreign policy in places like Haiti, as well as Latin America, reveals a long history of actions that has contributed to where they are now..

[Bob Campbell]

I knew you'd come up with that old excuse. These people were NOT in shock. You can see shock on peoples faces. These people looked like they were ready to break out in dance! The only thing missing was food and music. No, these people weren't even involved with the buildings collapse. They came from shacks etc that really didn't suffer much damage, being on the ground floor. THEN I heard some woman complain that they didn't even have an emergency room in their city. How can ANY large city not have an emergency room, even if very rudimentary? Don't worry, we'll build em the finest emergency room that American taxpayers can afford.

Spoken like a guy who has never experienced a disaster of any magnitude. While I don't disagree that Haiti is a hellhole, I have been front and center of a large scale disaster, the Oklahoma City bombing. People on the scene were stunned, shocked and paralyzed by the trauma. And the scale of that bombing is insignificant when compared to the Haiti earthquake.
Saying Haiti is poor only because the people choose to be poor is like saying the same thing about WV....well....never mind.

[DJSHOCKLEY]

I knew you'd come up with that old excuse. These people were NOT in shock. You can see shock on peoples faces. These people looked like they were ready to break out in dance! The only thing missing was food and music. No, these people weren't even involved with the buildings collapse. They came from shacks etc that really didn't suffer much damage, being on the ground floor. THEN I heard some woman complain that they didn't even have an emergency room in their city. How can ANY large city not have an emergency room, even if very rudimentary? Don't worry, we'll build em the finest emergency room that American taxpayers can afford.

Spoken like a guy who has never experienced a disaster of any magnitude. While I don't disagree that Haiti is a hellhole, I have been front and center of a large scale disaster, the Oklahoma City bombing. People on the scene were stunned, shocked and paralyzed by the trauma. And the scale of that bombing is insignificant when compared to the Haiti earthquake.
Saying Haiti is poor only because the people choose to be poor is like saying the same thing about WV....well....never mind.

Yeah, too bad that after seeing 100,000 people die in a quake right in front of them, the survivers didn't immediately spring to action like GWB did on 9/11, or his unqualified political appointees did during Katrina!!

Sorry... That HAD to be said!!! lol

[fearpeddler]

if the oklahoma city building or the towers would have fallen on their own with no HUMAN AID then they could legitimately be called disasters in my eyes.... but you guys are comparing acts of nature to acts of man.....

either way it goes we'll go to the rescue and save everyone like we're expected to do, then the world will go back to damning our existence.....

[CoolBreeze]

the survivers didn't immediately spring to action like GWB did on 9/11, or his unqualified political appointees did during Katrina!!

SCREW GEORGE BUSH AND EVERY OTHER STINKIN POLITICIAN!

I'm talking about human nature! People doing SOMETHING..ANYTHING! And dont get me started on that damned Katrina! Those morons were WARNED FAR IN ADVANCE. More so than any other people in the history of the human race! They had many chances to leave. It was THEIR local leadership that dropped the damned ball and everyone knows that.

So stop bringing OUR politics into this. Those people in Haiti, like most of Africa, had the government they wanted.

Spoken like a guy who has never experienced a disaster of any magnitude.

You dont have to experience "disasters of any magnitude" to understand how people react when something really bad happens. Just add up all the little disasters I've witnessed in the 23 years as a firefighter, and I know how "normal" people react. I'm not saying that the entire country was standing around doing nothing. I'm saying that the very first video footage shown did indeed reflect that, and those people were oblivious.

While I'm at it, and on a slightly different topic:

Another thing that REALLY pisses me off is when Hollywood stars want to get into MY pocket for THEIR charity!

Jennifer Garner was a guest at Manchin's State of the State speech for her work with the anti-poverty program Save the Children. Manchin is asking the Legislature to spend $1 million on the group's work in rural West Virginia counties.
Manchin says Garner brought the program to the attention of first lady Gayle Manchin. Garner, who is married to fellow actor Ben Affleck, has starred in hit films like "Juno."

HEY JENNIFER! YOU AND BEN TOGETHER MAKE MORE MONEY THAN AN ENTIRE CITY HERE IN WV! Take that million out of your own damned pocket!

[Lester]

either way it goes we'll go to the rescue and save everyone like we're expected to do, then the world will go back to damning our existence.....

Yep... or our own people, who somehow seem to think we started the earthquake.

[The Interpreter]

Meanwhile, media reports indicate that the Reverend Pat Robertson says this earthquake is God's retribution on Haiti for having a deal with the devil to oust the French.

Sigh.

[Hoosier Daddy]

I'm torn on this one. I feel sorry for anyone affected by an earthquake, especially where there has been a tremendous amount of suffering and loss of life. But at the same time, I find myself cursing and saying Here We Go Again as American rescue workers, humanitarians, search dogs, millions of dollars of food, water, and supplies, and millions more in equipment and logistical support -- some of it taken from charities here in the USA but most of it coming from our tax dollars whether we like it or not. We will go over there, give our all and do the best we can, leave, then be cursed by much of the Third World for having all the things that were used to attempt to save their lives. Meanwhile, in this country, our infrastructure crumbles, essential public safety forces face layoffs and downsizing because there is no money, and our own hard-working middle class population is facing the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression with little assistance from anyone.

Just once, I'd like to see us use tax and charity money to help the population that earned it and donated it/was taxed for it in the first place. I am well aware of the life most Haitians live, and I can't help but wonder if some natural catastrophe that takes tens of thousands of suffering humans out of a famine and disease-laden food chain isn't a mercy killing and perhaps a blessing in disguise.

There you go. Grab some tomatoes if you wish.

[CoolBreeze]

Meanwhile, media reports indicate that the Reverend Pat Robertson says this earthquake is God's retribution on Haiti for having a deal with the devil to oust the French.Sigh.

I really don't want to defend Pat Robertson. But as a Christian, he's saying that because Haiti leaned toward VOO-DOO instead of God, the people are suffering. I hear people every day claim that "God has been good to America" due to our mostly religious population.. (at least in the past). And "God Bless America" etc. And most religious people would tell you that America HAS prospered because of it's God fearing people.

Now... you can take any of that for what it's worth to you, but Robertson was thinking along those lines when he made the comment, as would most preachers. Not a defense, just a fact. He (like most preachers) would say that had the people of Haiti been more Christian like, they would have already had charities and hospitals and other facilities to treat the needy in times of hurricanes and earthquakes. Most good preachers NEVER claim that God causes these tragedies... but what man has prepared in advance of them is often the key to survival. In other words, if you care enough for your fellow man, you'll try to do something about it.

[The Interpreter]

So, I suppose the Louisiana hurricane was also God's retribution for sin?

What, exactly, does one do to prepare oneself to prevent some sort of divine retribution in a catastrophic natural disaster?

What utter rubbish...

[CoolBreeze]

Again, it has nothing to do with the natural disasters. It has to do with what man does for each other in preparation for them. Every single thing we do, from Radar weather warning systems to paramedics has to do with preparing for the worst, and saving our fellow man to the best of our ability. Why? Because religious teachings say it's the right thing to do. Otherwise, we'd all look like Haiti or worse.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Thoughts from a San Francisco Firefighter/Paramedic ...

We’re all following the updates from the 7.0 earthquake that struck Haiti just 48 hours ago. Our brothers and sisters have been mobilized to assist and there is an outpouring of support in the form of food drives and monetary donations all over these internets. Before I get into my points to think about, please remember to donate to established organizations. The American Red Cross is just such an organization that can use the money well, as opposed to your local corner Girl Scout Troop who may have to pay to have things sent over, and even then it may not arrive in time.

In time for what, you ask? Oh I think you know.

Our brothers and sisters mobilized for the search and rescue effort are facing a task they may not be ready for. They are trained professionals in search, rescue, recovery, everything first response, but there is, by all accounts so far, no framework to support their efforts. I don’t just mean a place to land, restock and camp, I’m talking about basic disaster concerns. These folks can get in and get setup, do their thing like no other.

Let’s think this through for a moment. Estimates show 9 million people in Haiti and at least 1/3 of the country may be injured. 3 million injuries. From scratches and scrapes to fractures to crush syndrome and major systems trauma. Many may not survive the night because of their injuries, but let’s look past that.

When the USAR teams use their tech, tools and smarts to rescue the injured, where will they go? Who will come to transport them to the hospital? Where are the hospitals? In rubble. Each and every resource that can assist in this event will need to be brought in from the outside. How long will it take to set up triage and treatment centers to help the ambulatory? Then the injured but invalid? And finally to the traumatic injuries. The hospital does not just need electricity, or staff, or supplies, they need everything, including walls.

On all 4 networks I have seen different footage, all of one ambulance traveling the rubble strewn roads.

The honest answer is that definitive care for most of those injured will not arrive within 72 hours of their injury.

Do we remember what happens to internal injuries that go untreated? When these folks are rescued…then what?

What is the plan for when the almost 100,000 estimated dead are still in the streets in 96 hours? Will they have an adverse effect on what little sanitation remains, what little clean water there may be? What will happen to those sleeping in the open near the bodies?

I do not envy the person who must choose how to deploy resources, but it makes me think about San Francisco when (not if, but when) our big one hits. We will have plan and resources from afar. We have volunteers trained to help. We have disaster supplies ready to go. We have folks with phones that can make calls without cell towers, buildings that can generate electricity when the sun shines.

Those things are not common in Haiti. Cell phones, the ones that still have a signal, will have dead batteries soon. Gasoline for generators will be running low. People will become desperate for help. And they will become dangerous.

What do we do then?

I don’t have an answer, nor am I posing these questions in a political framework, just trying to get us all thinking ahead.

If it looks bad now, just be ready for when decomposition begins and things get worse. And each person rescued is another that will need advanced care, food, water, medicine. Each news reporter that arrives also needs water, food and shelter that could be used at a temporary hospital.

As a start, I challenge each and every news network to pull your crew out of the disaster area and donate what you would have spent on your employees to the relief effort. More later.

The Happy Medic

from www.fireemsblogs.com

[Hoosier Daddy]

Photos from Port-au-Prince

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/0 ... haiti.html

Unbelivevable.

[CoolBreeze]

Here's a cropped photo from that set of images. What do you see when you view this?

[AmpedNow]

Those pictures are unreal.

A great example of why there are not many brick houses in California...

I think we all agree that Haiti is an impoverished hellhole. But, that's not the point now. Let's get the aid and rescue there asap and argue about the politics later.

Imagine your family buried underneath your house after a major earthquake. You're lucky enough to find one of the few working internet connections left on the island, desperately looking for the world to send help. You then stumble upon this thread...

We have an aircraft carrier with supplies on the way. The UK, Taiwan, Venezuela, Indonesia, and Germany among others are also sending aid.

We're not the only ones.

[Ace Purple]

I think we all agree that Haiti is an impoverished hellhole. But, that's not the point now. Let's get the aid and rescue there asap and argue about the politics later.

Imagine your family buried underneath your house after a major earthquake. You're lucky enough to find one of the few working internet connections left on the island, desperately looking for the world to send help. You then stumble upon this thread...

We have an aircraft carrier with supplies on the way. The UK, Taiwan, Venezuela, Indonesia, and Germany among others are also sending aid.

We're not the only ones.

Thank you for being the voice of reason on this, AmpedNow (and the others who seem to have a grasp on reality). I'm shocked, and not in a good way, at the callousness of some of the earlier comments in this thread. Disgusted, really.

The mother of my friend Casey was a sponsor of a little girl named Feleciana in Port-au-Prince. When the earthquake hit, the building she was in collapsed around her, trapping her inside.

People, including family and friends and neighbors, worked with the rudimentary tools they had to free Feleciana. After 18 hours, she was finally extricated. One of her feet had been severed off in the collapse; she had suffered severe blood loss. Rescue teams got her to a hospital, but she died soon after arrival.

That is but one story among thousands and thousands coming out of Port-au-Prince. This is a human tragedy on a massive scale. There are lives hanging in the balance, with hours literally meaning the difference between life and death.

Believe me, I am an opponent of the United States being the world police, as much so as possibly anyone else who reads this board on a regular basis. But, for fuck's sake, there are people trapped alive in Port-au-Prince, and others who need medical treatment to live. The arrival of medical supplies will mean the difference between survival and death for thousands of people.