Country stars against MTR

[Bob Campbell]

More efficient would be to disconnect everybody else's meter. Wasters would be gone and the environmentalists would naturally conserve and use less.

[genlock]

Socialists fail because they run out of other peoples money.

I forget who said that.

[rfhertz]

Socialists fail because they run out of other peoples money.

I forget who said that.

Margaret Thatcher, Thames TV This Week, Feb. 6, 1975

[oldtvman2]

Why is it bad to remove coal from a mountaintop for energy but it is great to remove a mountain top for things like a MALL or a new Road. Mothers of those enviros tell their kid to shut up thats going to be a MALL. when building any thing of large size you have to remove a mountain top. nobody screams about a road or a Mall but only when it involves coal. just drive down any long road in W.V. and look at the cuts through the hillsides (mountain tops) It is people like this that are preaching about global warming. it has gotten 1 degeree warmer of the past decade, now is this global warming or just the natural order of things, one time we had the ice age and i guess it has been warming up since then. I don't see how a melting iceberg would add more water to the earth as the ice would displace the same amount of water as when it would melt. i guess we will just have to wate and see, in the mean time people are making money, causing cars to cost more and electric to cost more and i still don't see how it will help cool the earth. tell the people out west in those snow storms about global warming.

[Bob Campbell]

Why is it bad to remove coal from a mountaintop for energy but it is great to remove a mountain top for things like a MALL or a new Road. Mothers of those enviros tell their kid to shut up thats going to be a MALL. when building any thing of large size you have to remove a mountain top. nobody screams about a road or a Mall but only when it involves coal. just drive down any long road in W.V. and look at the cuts through the hillsides (mountain tops) It is people like this that are preaching about global warming. it has gotten 1 degeree warmer of the past decade, now is this global warming or just the natural order of things, one time we had the ice age and i guess it has been warming up since then. I don't see how a melting iceberg would add more water to the earth as the ice would displace the same amount of water as when it would melt. i guess we will just have to wate and see, in the mean time people are making money, causing cars to cost more and electric to cost more and i still don't see how it will help cool the earth. tell the people out west in those snow storms about global warming.

Quick note on how melting ice raises see level. Melting icebergs do not. Melting glaciers do as that ice was not floating in the sea but sitting on land.
A one degree increase per decade, while seeming small, is actually huge. I don't think the actual increase has been that large. That rapid an increase would be catastrophic in under 50 years. Think of the beach now being in Ricmond instead of Va. Beach. Florida being a chain of small islands. Etc.

Does anyone know if there were protests for say, the development in South Charleston? I forget what it's called.
The MTR protesters are not protesting the coal removal per se,well, some probably are, but what it does to the environment. The polluted creeks, sludge and chemical spills, etc.

[AmpedNow]

Does anyone know if there were protests for say, the development in South Charleston? I forget what it's called.
The MTR protesters are not protesting the coal removal per se,well, some probably are, but what it does to the environment. The polluted creeks, sludge and chemical spills, etc.

I have no problem with hill cuts for roads and building developments, because they are necessary for modern life.

I want to see more development around the state, quite frankly.

What I don't like is reducing a mountain's elevation by several hundred feet because it directly affects the ecosystem for miles around it.

Plus, once it's gone, it's gone forever. Generations three hundred years from now will know this point in history, and wonder what the mountains used to look like. And think we were crazy and inconsiderate.

Think of the clear cutters that went through here a hundred years ago... What they did is considered absolute madness by today's standards, but I'm sure the arguments supporting it were the same then.

Of course, three hundred years from now, energy consumption should be almost 100% renewable resources. And the coal will be gone anyway.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Students of environmental science call what you mentioned "the Frontier mentality". The term goes back to the days when America was venturing westward, and the pioneers never thought twice about tearing the hell out of whatever stood in their way, because, from their perspective. the forests and streams seemed to go on forever. We do realize how short-sighted this is today, and most have learned to be more reasonable in their usage of our natural resources.

I have no problem with mountaintop removal in coal mining if there is some planning involved and the coal company can be a good steward of the property while it is being mined. Once the minimg operation is complete, then the ground needs to be restored to something usable. My biggest issue with MTR is when you take the coal out and simply walk away.

With some foresight, you could relocate flood prone cities to higher, flatter ground that would be easier to develop and grow. Of course, this would be a monumental task that would require a lot of regulation and planning, but it may be cheaper than rebuilding every time you have high water. I don't think you should level every mountaintop within sight, but there has to be some sensible middle ground in this dilemma. Right now, we do need the coal to keep America's lights burning, whether the environmentalists like it or not. There aren't many alternative solutions out there.

[Bob Campbell]

A great example of a well restored MTR site is the Twisted Gun Golf course in ? Logan County?
It's been turned into a beautiful links style golf course with amazing views.

[CoolBreeze]

Of which you can see here in this video I made over two years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzPnq5DCqWk

[Lester]

Well, the planet hit it's warmest ever almost 20 years ago... but it still didn't bring the dinosaurs back to Montana. And we're polluting the planet SO MUCH that our neighboring planets are getting warmer as well... humans really suck.

And now there is a massive scandal brewing (that won't make the news) about how "global warming" scientists were doctoring results for greater effect.

We used to be much warmer, then we got really cold, then it got warm again, followed by cold, followed by warm. It's called "a cycle".

[Bob Campbell]

Unfortunately, we're not getting cooler. It's fun for the global warming deniers to cite a few localised examples as proof that warming is not happening. Unfortunately, global warming is exactly that, global. And all the long term global trends are showing warming, not cooling. The current patterns do not conform to historic "cycles", but are much more drastic. That's why the scientific consensus is very clear on the subject. The planet is warming at an accelerating rate, with the preponcerance of evidence showing it to be caused by human actions.

[genlock]

Somebody hacked the global warming computer database.
E-mails between the global warming scientists indicate a scam.
A scam to make money, preserve government grants and raise taxes.
A scam to develop political power for those in the green movement
and make AlGore rich.

[genlock]

More climate science from the Nation:

"The effects of climate change have driven women in communities in coastal areas in poor countries like the Philippines into dangerous work, and sometimes even the flesh trade, a United Nations official said.

Suneeta Mukherjee, country representative of the United Nations Food Population Fund (UNFPA), said women in the Philippines are the most vulnerable to the effects of climate change in the country.

“Climate change could reduce income from farming and fishing, possibly driving some women into sex work and thereby increase HIV infection," Mukherjee said during the Wednesday launch of the UNFPA annual State of World Population Report in Pasay City."

[Hoosier Daddy]

One must begin this discussion by understanding that weather (localized, day-by-day temperature and precipitation) is completely different than climate (overall, large-scale shifts in average temperature, precipitation, polar ice melting, wind patterns, etc.) Global Warming involves changes in the climate. You cannot dismiss global warming because its 65 degrees in Myrtle Beach on one oddball day in August.

[genlock]

Der Speigel online:

"Global warming appears to have stalled. Climatologists are puzzled as to why average global temperatures have stopped rising over the last 10 years. Some attribute the trend to a lack of sunspots, while others explain it through ocean currents."

It's the sun, stupid.

[genlock]

Oprah does not believe in global warming.

She says:

"Why would anybody stay in Chicago? It's freezing here, and I have a mansion in Montecito that I haven't been able to enjoy."

[Bob Campbell]

I don't believe in Oprah.

Don't you love guys who decry socialism then quote from a magazine from a socialist country?

Sunspots operate on a regular 11 year cycle of lows and highs. 2012 doom nuts use it as one of their reasons for the end of the world.

And don't you love the irony of warming deniers, within the space of just a few posts in this thread, saying the sun is causing warming here and all the planets in the solar system and saying the sun is causing cooling?

[genlock]

CNN/time-warner, socialism supporters in Anerica.

[genlock]

I don't believe in Oprah.

That's Racist!

[Hoosier Daddy]

I don't believe in Oprah.

That's Racist!

Calling her a "Chocolate Jesus" is racist.