Shooter = Major Malik Nadal Hasan

[Hoosier Daddy]

Agreed. Since he's still alive, Hasan needs a date with the Firing Squad.

And he may get the nod, but might not get the date... The military will sentence someone to death, but they haven't done an actual execution since 1961.

Time to warm up those rifles and start practicing. The military has a unique opportunity here to show that we mean business. They can do it in a way the civilian court system cannot or will not. There is nothing Hasan did at Fort Hood that can't be partially fixed by ventilating his aorta.

[Hoosier Daddy]

You mean stuff like bombing abortion clinics, lynching blacks and homosexuals, or the holocaust?

Non of the above examples involve Christians. Self professed Christians maybe, but not real Christians. It simply doesn't work that way. Need proof? Christ taught only love, not hate. So NONE of the examples hold water.

These acts were done in the name of Christianity, by people who considered themselves extremely devout (ultra-conservative) Christians, usually quoting bible verses as their 'authority" to maim and kill.

I get your point, but, then again, I don't.

[Jet Black]

You mean stuff like bombing abortion clinics, lynching blacks and homosexuals, or the holocaust?

That's just wrong, Jay. Does the Bible say to do any of those things? No. The Bible tells you NOT to do any of those things, justice is God's business, not ours. But not so the Koran, not that I've read it, but apparently TELLS believers to kill infidels. Holocaust? Hitler wasn't a Christian at all, he just used a perverted Christianity to appease the dumber German masses (remind you of anybody current?) How could even the dumbest Christian believe shoveling Jews into an oven was somehow encouraged by the Bible? That's why the occult-driven SS was in charge of this horrible, inhuman business. (Muslims think it's a great idea.)

How can you be swayed so easily? Don't you understand we are in this mess for no reason other than Muslims want infidels DEAD? Want ALL Isrealis DEAD? They din't attack the WTC because they want a polical change - they want Isreal GONE, and they want to scare us from helping them. Americans are dying every day -EVERY DAY - because Muslims don't want us to have any influence in their Jew-hating, xenophobic, bronze-age, Islamo-fascist expanse of desert. We don't care what they do or what they believe, do we? No. All we care about is, they are killing us and our friends, how can we make them stop? All they care about is, there's some dry land in the world where our view of Allah does not reign supreme - we must kill all contrarians.

Seriously.

[AmpedNow]

Abortion clinic bombers, what few there are by comparison, are driven by an "eye of eye" mindset. They are so convinced that abortion is murder on the same scale as "post-born" murder that the "butchers" who carry out these procedures must be stopped at any cost -- including taking their lives.

This is "retribution" by conviction, not a desire to convert them to Christianity.

Racist lynchings by White Supremacists, what few there are by comparison, have nothing to do with Christianity, even though they sometimes use scripture to "convince" people of their cause. But it's more less a subtext to "White Nationalism" and just plain hatred of non-Whites.

I doubt that it occurs to them to offer the lynched to say the "Sinner's Prayer" as they're being strung up...

Muslim extremist terrorism is a means to an end... If they can't establish Sharia Law theocracy in Western nations including the U.S. to rule over the infidels, then they will kill as many of us as it takes until we are either conquered, or willingly convert to Islam.

I also agree that the best solution is for an Islamic Enlightenment. Unfortunately for us, this is unlikely to occur in our lifetimes, if at all.

Before then, another Battle of Vienna is eventually coming to us. We'd better be ready for it.

[CoolBreeze]

These acts were done in the name of Christianity, by people who considered themselves extremely devout (ultra-conservative) Christians, usually quoting bible verses as their 'authority" to maim and kill.

So... you're willing to blame Christians for non Christian acts? See, it's not even POSSIBLE for a Christian to do these things, so why do you continue to blame Christians? I mean, I can go out and proclaim to be a Black Panther, create a lot of havoc .... but that's not even possible no matter WHAT I say or do. So, would you blame all Black Panthers for what some stupid White guy did? ( boy, that's a lousy analogy )

Point is that the Bible (New Testament remember) does NOT allow these things, therefore you are NOT a Christian if you do them! It's just that simple. Other "forms" of the Bible do, and the Koran is one of them.

[Bob Campbell]

These acts were done in the name of Christianity, by people who considered themselves extremely devout (ultra-conservative) Christians, usually quoting bible verses as their 'authority" to maim and kill.

So... you're willing to blame Christians for non Christian acts? See, it's not even POSSIBLE for a Christian to do these things, so why do you continue to blame Christians? I mean, I can go out and proclaim to be a Black Panther, create a lot of havoc .... but that's not even possible no matter WHAT I say or do. So, would you blame all Black Panthers for what some stupid White guy did? ( boy, that's a lousy analogy )

Point is that the Bible (New Testament remember) does NOT allow these things, therefore you are NOT a Christian if you do them! It's just that simple. Other "forms" of the Bible do, and the Koran is one of them.

Those people are as "Christian" as The Ft. Hood shooter is "Muslim". As are Al-Qaeda et al.
They all feel directed by their God and their Holy Book to act the way they did. Like I said earlier, perversion is perversion.
And for Amped, history is full of Christians offering a "convert or die" option. See the Spanish conquest of the Americas, the Crusades. Right, it didn't happen yesterday, but it did happen. No different from what Muslim extremists do now.
America is more at risk from Christian extremists within than it is from Muslim extremists without. The US is never going to be a Muslim country, nor will it ever be run by Sharia law. We are way too addicted to good life we lead. It may get something just as bad from the right wing theocracy that dominates the so-called Conservative movement in America.

[genlock]

Major Hasan checked home to the mother ship.
May have gotten his shooting orders


From the msm

FORT HOOD, TEX. -- Maj. Nidal M. Hasan corresponded by e-mail late last year and this year with a radical cleric in Yemen who has criticized the United States for waging war against Muslims, but the contact did not lead to an investigation, federal law enforcement officials said Monday.

Hasan, an Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 12 soldiers and a civilian here on Thursday, will be tried in military court, the officials said.

U.S. intelligence agencies intercepted 10 to 20 e-mails from Hasan to Anwar al-Aulaqi, a U.S. citizen who once was a spiritual leader, or imam, at the suburban Virginia mosque where Hasan had worshiped, said a law enforcement official who spoke about the investigation on condition of anonymity.

Aulaqi responded to Hasan at least twice, according to Rep. Peter Hoekstra (Mich.), the ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee.

[fearpeddler]

needless to say my browser has lagged out and double posted...... see line below.....

[fearpeddler]

And for Amped, history is full of Christians offering a "convert or die" option. See the Spanish conquest of the Americas, the Crusades. Right, it didn't happen yesterday, but it did happen. No different from what Muslim extremists do now.
America is more at risk from Christian extremists within than it is from Muslim extremists without. The US is never going to be a Muslim country, nor will it ever be run by Sharia law. We are way too addicted to good life we lead. It may get something just as bad from the right wing theocracy that dominates the so-called Conservative movement in America.

well bob, thats a funny, considering spain was a CATHOLIC country and not CHRISTIAN back then.... major differences, seriously how long have you been packing around this self hatred of your nationality man?... its not healthy.... fact of the matter is muslims have a PROVEN track record of extreme violence in this world, and its not like the other "nuts" you've mentioned, its violence against non-muslims.... One day soon the world will hopefully declare this "faith" of theirs bullshit and treat these savages as they should be treated....

[genlock]

I am not sure that Bob hates America, his own heritage, his parents, or anything else including conservatives.
People have protected and shielded extremists thruout the ages and will continue to do so, if for no other reason
than to attract attention. Stalin had his supporters and still does. Adolf Hitler had many supporters and allies
among them the islamic nations. Hitler went so far as to name some Imam to the post of General in the SS.
Iran was allied with the Axis in WW2. That Imam/SS General went on to create the Iraq Baath party and was
a mentor to Saddam Hussein. The NAZI's and the islamo-facistists have learned a lot from each other.
We can ignore the threat, we can negotiate till our heads explode and come home with a piece of paper
like Neville Chamberlain did after the Anchluss of Czechoslovakia, or we can do something.
All the available leaders seem to resemble those that were available in about 1932 and are turned inward.
That's not just here in the USA but worldwide. A leader will emerge, but on which side of the equation?

[fearpeddler]

Thats what I'm getting from this thread, none of the usual defending the liberals for bob. I'm waiting for him to justify the manson murders next......

[CoolBreeze]

I can believe myself to be Jesus Christ, but that doesn't make it so. Neither does using the Bible to commit acts of violence make them Christian, no matter WHAT they say.

So... where's the beef?


"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," .... Major Nidal Malik Hasan

[Bob Campbell]

[quote="CoolBreeze"]I can believe myself to be Jesus Christ, but that doesn't make it so. Neither does using the Bible to commit acts of violence make them Christian, no matter WHAT they say.

So... where's the beef?

No beef as long as you realise that no matter what you're religion, extremism is wrong. I repeat, perversion is perversion. I abhor extremism of any stripe. As I abhor racism disquised as "my religion is more worthy than yours" foolishness.
The Bible says, "judge not lest ye be judged". It is not for us to decide who has the corner on religious truth. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, none of us are capable of deciding which, if any, is the "one true" religion. Maybe they all are. Maybe none of them are. We are not equipped to decide.

And did fear peddler say Catholics aren't Christian? Catholicism, the original Christian religion, has an unbroken line of succession to St. Peter, to whom Christ said, "Upon this rock, I will build my Church". The other Christian sects split from the Church after Martin Luther sparked the Reformation and Henry the VIII started the Church of England.
Catholics are Christian FP. A statement such as yours speaks volumes about you.

[fearpeddler]

I just see a distinct difference in their practices and beliefs, I've always believe true christianity was more or less "muted" by the catholic church for more reasons of social control, thats not christianity but a governmental entity using a religions bible as a means to govern the people, like most of islam on this planet....... so theres some more background for ya....


Preachers are more meant to be more counselor than "actual" leader, no man, i said MAN is or ever will be as holy as Christ, therefore the majority of the structure of the church from the pope on down is nothing but a literal lie, the church at one point governed the world, and would gladly seize power again if given the chance, but thats not the true church, but just more greedy men doing bad things in the name of a holy deity....

[Bob Campbell]

FP, I expect what you've written about Catholicism comes from ignorance as none it bears any resemblance to reality.
I was raised a Catholic and attended Catholic school for 8 years.
No one in the Catholic church is seen as being as holy as Christ. The Pope leads the Church because Christ designated St. Peter as the leader of the Church and the Popes are elected successors.
The Vatican is indeed a separate Governmental entity, founded more out of self defense than any lust for power (though there has certainly been enough of that in the Church, no denial from me). If you will recall, Christians(Catholics, the only Christians around at the time) were persecuted quite violently by the Romans for a couple centuries. The Church never "governed the world", though the Vatican at one time did include a much larger part of Italy than the tiny state within a state it is now. It did wield considerable influence in Europe, as those countries were, and mostly remain, Catholic, though Europe is much more of a secular continent now.
Priests, known as Father in the Church, do indeed serve as counselors, not leaders in the sense of having secular authority. The Pope serves as the head of the Church itself but does not dictate the lifestyle of Catholics, other than the beliefs of the Church. No different than the head of the Anglican Church (Episcopalians in the US, I think), Lutherans, or Greek or Russian Orthodox. Some sects, like Baptists espouse no central leadership, though they have de facto leaders.
All of them grew from Catholicism through the years.

[Lester]

No beef as long as you realise that no matter what you're religion, extremism is wrong. I repeat, perversion is perversion. I abhor extremism of any stripe. As I abhor racism disquised as "my religion is more worthy than yours" foolishness.
The Bible says, "judge not lest ye be judged". It is not for us to decide who has the corner on religious truth. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, none of us are capable of deciding which, if any, is the "one true" religion. Maybe they all are. Maybe none of them are. We are not equipped to decide.

But the fact you are, at this point stubbornly, ignoring is that the bible of the Muslim's specifically PRAISES what Major Hasan did. It *TELLS HIM THIS IS OK!*

As CB pointed out, a Christian can't be a true Christian if he doesn't follow the New Testament... it just can't be. You can claim you are a Christian, but when you break from the teachings of Christ, you are not a practicing Christian.

(Highlight - CTRL-C - CTRL-V, find and replace)

A Muslim can't be a true Muslim if he doesn't follow the Quran... it just can't be. You can claim you are a Muslim, but when you break from the teachings of Mohamed, you are not a practicing Muslim.

Islam is a religion of "peace", when practiced against other Muslims... that is an important distinction that everyone seems to miss.

[Jet Black]

...As I abhor racism disquised as "my religion is more worthy than yours" foolishness. The Bible says, "judge not lest ye be judged". It is not for us to decide who has the corner on religious truth. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, none of us are capable of deciding which, if any, is the "one true" religion. Maybe they all are. Maybe none of them are. We are not equipped to decide.

This is the single most ignorant thing I've ever seen from you, and I've seen some duesies. I've decided who has the corner. I believe in Jesus Christ. Bob, don't let your hideous and wanton ignorange of the Bible destroy you.

[Jay Nunley]

You mean stuff like bombing abortion clinics, lynching blacks and homosexuals, or the holocaust?

That's just wrong, Jay. Does the Bible say to do any of those things? No. The Bible tells you NOT to do any of those things, justice is God's business, not ours. But not so the Koran, not that I've read it, but apparently TELLS believers to kill infidels. Holocaust? Hitler wasn't a Christian at all, he just used a perverted Christianity to appease the dumber German masses (remind you of anybody current?) How could even the dumbest Christian believe shoveling Jews into an oven was somehow encouraged by the Bible? That's why the occult-driven SS was in charge of this horrible, inhuman business. (Muslims think it's a great idea.)

How can you be swayed so easily? Don't you understand we are in this mess for no reason other than Muslims want infidels DEAD? Want ALL Isrealis DEAD? They din't attack the WTC because they want a polical change - they want Isreal GONE, and they want to scare us from helping them. Americans are dying every day -EVERY DAY - because Muslims don't want us to have any influence in their Jew-hating, xenophobic, bronze-age, Islamo-fascist expanse of desert. We don't care what they do or what they believe, do we? No. All we care about is, they are killing us and our friends, how can we make them stop? All they care about is, there's some dry land in the world where our view of Allah does not reign supreme - we must kill all contrarians.

Seriously.

Hold on. He asked for modern examples of Christians killing non believers. I never said I equated that with jihadists.

You got me all wrong on this. I'm damn near convinced the only solution to this is the American flag flying over Mecca. That's not a good solution. It's unthinkable in every way, but I can't think of anything better that will actually work.

We have not only a right, but a moral duty to protect ourselves and our families.

You attributed a bunch of stuff to my words that simply were not there. I know you guys are on edge and amped up because of their being so many democrats in high public office, but damn. This is not an all or nothing world. Just because I gave a few examples of religion based murder coming from christians does not mean I'm pro-jihadist, anti-christian, anti-american, or an easily swayed idiot any more than my suggesting we have a right and duty to protect ourselves means I'm a war mongering, non-christian hating, militarist.

[Hoosier Daddy]

I know you guys are on edge and amped up because of their being so many democrats in high public office, but damn. This is not an all or nothing world. Just because I gave a few examples of religion based murder coming from christians does not mean I'm pro-jihadist, anti-christian, anti-american, or an easily swayed idiot any more than my suggesting we have a right and duty to protect ourselves means I'm a war mongering, non-christian hating, militarist.

Thank you.

[Jet Black]

Jay, you know I love you, brother. *Hug, Hug*

I get excited sometimes. Let me rephrase this. I think that in the name of the diversity and multiculturalism that has been a constant drumbeat of government and entertainment for the last twenty years, we Christians have allowed ourselves to be cornered and marginalized, and to get into arguments were we let people force us into equivicating Christianity, which is nothing but the belief in the singular divinity of Jesus Christ, with other religions great and small. But that's wrong. Christianity is not equivalent to any other religion either in divinity, in content, or in effect. Islam is a big religion, but the fruits of it's common practice shows what a lie it is.

So, looking back, it looks like the central theme of this thread is, is this shooter a nutcase who by chance is a Muslim, or a Muslim true-believer carrying out the tennants of his faith to the full measure? I ask you, if this man is angry enough to kill, what was he angry about? From all reports I've seen so far, this man's anger grew out of his Islamic faith. So far, it seems that people within Islam are lauding this guy for doing well as a true believer. So, what are we arguing about?

If you are thinking (dear reader) that this man is a madman but not a Muslim Terrorist, I ask you, how do you remove this cat's madness from his faith, and are his mad acts condemned or extolled by Islam? I know what I think.