Shooter = Major Malik Nadal Hasan

[CoolBreeze]

See next post...

[CoolBreeze]

Speaking at the White House, Mr Obama said: “We don’t know all the answers yet, and I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts.”

Hahaha... That's hilarious! I'm supposed to take advice from an idiot that cant even make up his mind on what to do in Afghanistan while Americans are being picked off one by one. A man who has NO idea of what money means, and took his financial advice from the likes of Jesse Jackson, who also never worked a day in his life and knew that his next million dollars would come in the form of another government grant.

Yea... I'm going to listen to some jerk tell me that "all is well... all is well" while people in white sheets are killing Americans about to go off to war. I'm not politically correct and will never stoop that low.

Now... on to the topic at hand: This military base in Texas is 3 times the population of Charleston: 150,000. You would THINK that the military police would be so strong in this setting that you wouldn't have to call in the local traffic cops to stop nonsense like this.

[Lester]

Barack Hussein Obama (D-Kenya) commented today

[genlock]

From my experience at Ft Gordon, only guys on base with weapons at the ready are the MP's.
We had no outside police force there. About 50,000m on base.
As Ft Gordon was the MP school, there were a lot of MP trainees without guns.
A larger post like Ft Hood has a lot of Army civilians so a regular police force is needed.
When in training in 1969, NCO's were very concerned that someone would bring live ammo
from the range to the barracks area and load up when we were training with unloaded weapons.
Many precautions were taken, no ammo was found. Personal knives were prohibited.
Considering the situation, I was handled excellently. Much more damage could have been done.
A shame this guy was not found out before his handlers triggered his personal jihad.

[The People's DJ]

Islam = religion of "piece"

Piece of you over there.
Piece of you over here.

[Bob Campbell]

You can find Christian scripture to support what he did as easily as you can Muslim.

For example?

The Story of David, Sodom and Gomorahh, Battle of Jericho, plenty more.

In a related story, in Florida a Christian stormed into his former workplace, murdered one and wounded 5.
From Last One
You can banter about it all you want....but a Muslim sworn to the Koran is automaticaly an enemy of the state. Any state, any nation for the Koran accepts no law above it. Everyone is an "infidel" unless you're a Muslim. And a Muslim can do anything they want to an "infidel". Unlike other religions and cults, Islam's only goal is to dominate by force.

That's different from Christians like McVeigh and Koresh how?
What's it like to be so afraid of everyone different from you?

[Jet Black]

You're skidding all over the road again, Bob. I can't tell what side of the argument you're trying to fall on.

But just to pick on you, I'll pick your first three:

Story of David. What, in particular? How do you read anything in the Old Testement story of David that encourages Christians to kill anybody?

Soddam and Gomorahh. God destroyed these cities after giving them repeated warning to straighten up. I don't recall that God ordered anybody to kill people in those towns; He did it himself. I don't see how this would give any Christian the idea he was called on by God to destroy anybody.

Battle of Jericho: A battle, wherein God directed the Isrealites to fight. I don't see where this gives any Christian the license to murder.

I would point out that everything you mentioned was in the Old Testement, which you may not understand is the history of what went down BEFORE Jesus Christ, and Jesus spent a lot of time pointing out how nobody could really live up to the rigid laws of the Old Testement, how people saw guilt in other people but excused the worse guilt in themselves. A deep subject.

Koresh didn't murder anybody, but fought back against government attack. He was a fruitcake, but I'm just saying, he wasn't killing anybody before the FBI got there. McVeigh may have been a Christian but I can't see how a man could love Jesus Christ and still decide to kill innocent people over politics. But McVeigh's motivation was Constitutional-Political not religious. Can you understand the difference? Furthermore, I never heard any Christians putting up for McVeigh on religious grounds, nor did we have the President of the United States otu on TV reminding us not to jump to any conclusions on poor Mr. McVeigh.

Where did you conclude I was afraid of anybody? Or was that just a tactic to deflect the argument away from your thin reasoning?

[Bob Campbell]

Sodom and Gomorrah, you think there were no children in that entire city?
The story of David, where he assassinates the king?
David Koresh, who killed his entire flock via suicide by cop? Dude, if you think he was "fighting back" against government attack you should have the balls to arm yourself and do it yourself. Koresh was a cowardly psychotic who molested women and children and sacrificed them for his own twisted vision of Christianity. All he had to do to avoid every death was surrender to the legal authorities. The same legal authorities who put their lives on the live every day to protect you and me. The heroes at Waco were the ATF, police and FBI agents who gave their all.

McVeigh; your remarks make my point. I happen to be pretty familiar with that particular case as I was there. McVeigh did what he did because he believed the government had persecuted Koresh for his beliefs. It's almost exactly why we're fighting Al-Qaeda today.
Al-Qaeda and the Ft. Hood shooter no more represent the teachings of their religion than did McVeigh or Koresh.

[genlock]

Am I wrong?
Does the Koran not instruct the faithful to kill unbelievers?
In no uncertain terms?
By any means at hand?
For any transgression?
Even cartoons? Fictional writings? Manner of dress?
What kind of society puts up with that kind o crap?
What kind of society puts up with apologists for that kind of crap?

[Jet Black]

Forget it, Genlock; the Supreme Gnostic has spoken.


Are we sure Bob isn't Nomad?

[AmpedNow]

Islam and Christianity are not even close on these grounds.

Any religion will have a small faction of "true believers", but when you count the number of Muslims who kill for their "cause" compared to Christians, it's not even close. Using McVeigh and Koresh as examples of the mentality of the average Christian is laughable.

The day when Grandma Betsy from the First Baptist Church goes into a Wal-Mart Supercenter on a Sunday afternoon and blows herself up in order to take out as many of those Sunday-working heathen as possible, then I'll get concerned about those crazy Christians.

The military was forever changed when this happened... We need to have an honest national discussion about this issue, or it will happen again.

[fearpeddler]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rists.html

[Bob Campbell]

[quote="AmpedNow"]Islam and Christianity are not even close on these grounds.

Any religion will have a small faction of "true believers", but when you count the number of Muslims who kill for their "cause" compared to Christians, it's not even close. Using McVeigh and Koresh as examples of the mentality of the average Christian is laughable.

Okay, how about the Crusades, Columbus, Cortez, The Holy Roman Empire. Christianity is responsible for the death of at least as many innocents as Islam. Even Hitler believed he was doing God's will.
So, do you guys have a "Final Solution" in mind? Because that's the only place your argument leads. And will you be willing to carry it out yourself? Which one of you guys will take care of the children?
C'mon, nut up. You're all talk and no action.

My real point in all this is that you're trying to hide your racism behind some sort of politico-socio-religious debate.
Where were you when Christians were slaughtering Muslims in the Balkans in the 90's? Or the African genocide in Rwanda.
This isn't about Islam vs Christianity for you guys. It's the white guys vs the not white guys. At least be honest.

[genlock]

Where were you when Christians were slaughtering Muslims in the Balkans in the 90's? Or the African genocide in Rwanda.

Nato (American) armies moved into and attempted to settle the issue.
They are still there.

As for Rwanda, large segments of the population thought saving Rwanda was a good cause.
United Nations sent "Peacekeepers". Liberals wanted combat troops, conservatives wanted to go with UN or NATO.
As a result, no US troops were committed, Liberals were furious and used the racism argument.
Now, NOW, liberals hold the presidency, House and Senate. All the power.
Hillary is now quiet, so is Barry. Is that responsibility or being two-faced?
It could be the power facing up to the responsibility.
Tough choices come with tough jobs.

[Hoosier Daddy]

You guys are talking about two completely different subjects.

[AmpedNow]

Okay, how about the Crusades, Columbus, Cortez, The Holy Roman Empire. Christianity is responsible for the death of at least as many innocents as Islam. Even Hitler believed he was doing God's will.

Was Hitler a regular church goer? Not that it makes any difference in and of itself, but it seems to me that his religion of choice was a blond-haired, blue-eyed Germany, and eventual world. Not a world singing "Jesus Loves Me".

So, do you guys have a "Final Solution" in mind? Because that's the only place your argument leads. And will you be willing to carry it out yourself? Which one of you guys will take care of the children?

Eradicating Islam? No. Hitting the extremists back so hard that they fear the very mention of the United States? Sure. I have no problem with that at all.

In fact, it will eventually become necessary for the very survival of Western Culture as we know it... They never went away after 9/11. We might as well deal with them now or it will be far worse later.

C'mon, nut up. You're all talk and no action.

Neither is this president when it comes to Afghanistan and the now politically incorrect "War on Terror".

My real point in all this is that you're trying to hide your racism behind some sort of politico-socio-religious debate.
Where were you when Christians were slaughtering Muslims in the Balkans in the 90's? Or the African genocide in Rwanda.
This isn't about Islam vs Christianity for you guys. It's the white guys vs the not white guys. At least be honest.

This is probably the first time in the history of this message board that I have ever been truly offended.

I'm not even gonna try to defend myself from these statements... My personal actions and attitudes speak for themselves.

[Hoosier Daddy]

This is probably the first time in the history of this message board that I have ever been truly offended.

As a Christian, I'm not offended at all. Every religion has its Lunatic Fringe -- people who do horrible things to others in the name of their God. And all of them feel justified in doing it. I agree with President Obama that we need to wait and learn all the facts before passing any kind of personal judgment against this guy, and I agree that every person who looks or has a name that sounds Islamic isn't automatically "the enemy".

[genlock]

Sweep all under the prayer rug.

[AmpedNow]

This is probably the first time in the history of this message board that I have ever been truly offended.

As a Christian, I'm not offended at all. Every religion has its Lunatic Fringe -- people who do horrible things to others in the name of their God. And all of them feel justified in doing it. I agree with President Obama that we need to wait and learn all the facts before passing any kind of personal judgment against this guy, and I agree that every person who looks or has a name that sounds Islamic isn't automatically "the enemy".

I'm not a racist.

Nor am I a bigot against Islam. I have Muslim friends, for crying out loud...

I'm against extremism in any form. If it were the Southern Baptists shooting up Wal-Mart supercenters and army bases, I would be condemning them, too.

Comparing Christianity's not-so-shining moments from centuries ago to the Muslim extremists of today is just crazy. Name me one modern example of Christians beheading and blowing up nonbelievers...

And for the record, I generally support separation of church and state. Little good can come of mixing religion with politics.

[Jay Nunley]

So...

What's the solution to all of this?

I can't think of one. Not a good one anyway.