Art or Crap? You decide.

[Jet Black]

Hey, Coolbreeze, how about removing that picture? Seriously.

[CoolBreeze]

[Lester]

Hey, Coolbreeze, how about removing that picture? Seriously.

If you're using Firefox, you can just right click and block it.

[Lester]

Oh... and another thing to consider... it doesn't matter how sh*tty a piece of art is, there is still a tax write-off for purchasing it.

[jag]

The picture itself is pretty ... until you find out how it was made.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, Hoosier Daddy. Rather, I'm asking this respectfully (because this thread is exploring some depth that we don't often encounter in discussions): Are you saying that the picture of the piece has more artistic merit to you than the actual piece, itself? Also, does how something is created really affect how we feel about it, artistically? After all, most of us marvel at the Pyramids, even though they were created with slave labor.

[Hoosier Daddy]

The picture itself is pretty ... until you find out how it was made.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, Hoosier Daddy. Rather, I'm asking this respectfully (because this thread is exploring some depth that we don't often encounter in discussions): Are you saying that the picture of the piece has more artistic merit to you than the actual piece, itself? Also, does how something is created really affect how we feel about it, artistically? After all, most of us marvel at the Pyramids, even though they were created with slave labor.

That's a fair question. The first time I ever saw that picture was when it was shown to me in a college government class. We were having a discussion about taxpayer support for the arts and other esoteric projects not really related to the most basic services a government ought to provide. I was immediately struck by the vivid colors. Christ and the cross being a light color -- almost white. A redness or darkness in the background. And then the amber light beam and the "bubbles" -- for lack of a better term. It struck me as Christ on the cross surrounded by the sins of the world and the blood of his own gruesome death, and then a beam of light and the "bubbles", as if Christ was being taken to heaven as the picture was photographed.

We were made aware that public funding was involved in this picture and I was shocked, because I thought the liberal "separation of church and state" absolutists would have a field day with this one, claiming the use of tax money somehow constituted an endorsement of Christianity.

We were told there was a huge controversy brewing about this photograph. Once the Professor "dropped the bomb", so to speak, about how this photograph was made, I was stunned and angry that anyone would desecrate a crucifix or any other religious symbol in such a manner. The controversy that was brewing wasn't the one I was anticipating.

I don't know if that answers your question or not. I'm still struck by the use of light and color, but I'm repulsed at how they obtained it. I don't really have a blanket set of feelings about my own personal determination of the worth of art. Like porn, I guess I know it when I see it.

[AmpedNow]

We were made aware that public funding was involved in this picture and I was shocked, because I thought the liberal "separation of church and state" absolutists would have a field day with this one, claiming the use of tax money somehow constituted an endorsement of Christianity.

I find it appalling that "Piss Christ" was approved and funded by the NEA. If they were truly following the separation of church and state they adore so much, then it should not qualify for taxpayer funding on those grounds alone. Even though it's blasphemous and does not promote Christianity. it still depicts a religious symbol.

I'm fine with separation of church and state as long it remains consistent... It should not primarily single out Christianity, as it usually does now. The Muslims, Pagans and blasphemers don't get a pass, either.

[Jay Nunley]

What about quasi-christian, partially agnostic, half way deists? Do we get a pass? I think we should. Call it religious affirmative action.

[The People's DJ]

[CoolBreeze]

Hey, Coolbreeze, how about removing that picture? Seriously.

Done! Like that better?

By the way, my favorite part of this "art" is:


The more I look at this, the more I think something phallic is going on here....

[Jet Black]

I'm against the NEA in it's entirety. If I was the XO of this country the NEA would be out of business, and artists would have to live on the value of their craft, not on the government. Public Broadcasting would go out with it. These are not legitmate functions of limited government.

[Bob Campbell]

The pyramids were not actually built by slave labor. That's a myth made popular mostly by movies and early archaeological theories. The laborers on the pyramids were actually paid, and had health care. Sorry, too much reading and History Channel.
Oh yeah, the Mona Lisa, the Sistine Chapel, the Dutch Masters, the Statue of Liberty and most other historic Classical works of art were all made with government funding. Art, like government, cannot be run like a typical business, it's different. Do away with governments supporting the arts and you do away with Piss Christ, but you also do away with the Washington Monument, Mt. Rushmore, etc.

[Jet Black]

Wow, a post in which every single utterance is not true, not remotely true, not even rational.

[Bob Campbell]

The Mona Lisa, commissioned by the Medicis, rulers of , crap, can't remember the city state in Italy.
The Sistine Chapel, commissioned by the Pope, leader of the Vatican, at the time one of the most powerful city states in Italy.
The Statue of Liberty, commissioned by the government of France.
The Washington Monument, paid for by our tax dollars. Ditto for Mt. Rushmore.
You think Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel on spec, hoping someone would buy it?

The great tradition of art in the Western world is that of a patron comissioning a work by an artist for some purpose, usually self agrandisement. The Medicis of Italy are among the most famous. The Catholic Church is another. Rome, Greece, you may have heard of them too.

[Jet Black]

The Mona Lisa, commissioned by the Medicis, rulers of , crap, can't remember the city state in Italy..

Venice. Medicis were rich and famous for being patrons of the arts. The money they used was their own.

The Sistine Chapel, commissioned by the Pope, leader of the Vatican, at the time one of the most powerful city states in Italy.

The Sistine Chapel was built by the Roman Catholic Church, long after the city-state era in human history. You can hardly claim that the church was built by a government.

The Statue of Liberty, commissioned by the government of France.

Paid for by the francs and what-all given by French citizens and schoolchildren, hardly forced on the taxpayers of France. Besides, a gift of art from one nation to another is not what we are talking about here. I'm not saying the government can't buy art for reasonable public-interest purposes, I'm saying it's not the legitimate function of government to make a de facto entitlement for people who consider themselves artists.

The Washington Monument, paid for by our tax dollars.

Public monument for specific purpose, not what we are talking about. It wasn't built for it's artistic merit but as a marker to commemorate an idea.

Ditto for Mt. Rushmore.

I thought this was privately commissioned, later purchased by the state of ND. But maybe I'm wrong. A good purchase and a fine work of art. But again, not a project of art made by some artist getting government money, but a specific monument specifically designed not only for public consumption but to increase tourism and thus have an economic benefit.

You think Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel on spec, hoping someone would buy it?

Deserves no response.

The great tradition of art in the Western world is that of a patron comissioning a work by an artist for some purpose, usually self agrandisement. The Medicis of Italy are among the most famous. The Catholic Church is another. Rome, Greece, you may have heard of them too.

Rich families are not Republics. Churches are not Republics. The tax structures of failed Republics 2000 years ago, I can hardley work into a support or rebuttle to whether or not US taxpayers should be forced to financially support people who's work itself is not economically viable. I wish the government would pay me to do what I wanted irregardless of whether it was useful or saleable or did any good for anybody, but they don't; they don't because we haven't slipped that low yet into pathetic socialism. Let's get rid of the NEA. Then there WILL be more money for real public art.

[Bob Campbell]

Sorry, but the Medicis were the government. They ruled the city, their money was city money.
The Vatican was indeed one of the most powerful city states at the time of the Sistine Chapel. Look it up. Or watch "The Agony and the Ecstacy". The Vatican is now, and always has been, a sovereign state.
A commissioned piece of art is a commissioned piece of art, be it monument or painting.
The Statue of Liberty , commissioned by the French Gov't. What's the difference between a tax and a donation to the government?

The point is, unless you really are only into velvet Elvis art, governments have a millenia long tradition of funding and supporting the arts. Art contributes to the general welfare, and as such, is a responsibility of government.
Now I can't wait for the posts saying art is bad for us.

[CoolBreeze]

The point is, unless you really are only into velvet Elvis art...

Not that there's anything wrong with that.....

[Jet Black]

What's the difference between a tax and a donation to the government?

A rifle, Comrade.

[AmpedNow]

What about quasi-christian, partially agnostic, half way deists? Do we get a pass? I think we should. Call it religious affirmative action.

Sure.

[Jay Nunley]

Thank you. I mean, how often do you get both a religion joke and an affirmative action joke in one post? I mean, I get one lousy laughy face for the effort. You guys just don't appreciate humor of this caliber.