Top 10 New Vehicles Purchased During Cash for Clunkers

[Jet Black]

Get serious, that was just a joke.

You want dispassionate reason? 137400000 American taxpayers have had their money redistributed to 660000 other Americans, in the name of causing more circulation of currency. Is that a good idea? I dont think so. I don't think we ought to be borrowing any more money as a nation than absolutely neccessary. I don't think the government ought to make laws that benefit any particular industry or business, even in the name of economic improvement. I don't think the government ought to take money out of one man's pocket and put it in the pocket of another man. Since this one-time sales improvement is in all likelihood going to be followed by a corresponding sales dip, i.e., selling all these cars $4500 cheaper is not going to cause any cars in the future to be sold and may cause even less cars to be sold in the short term, the net economic result will be zero, except the losses posted for this quarter by bankrupt auto makers may be slightly less than otherwise, which only causes currency circulation improvements tangentially. So what have we gained? That's my dispassionate, non-partisan analysis.

[AmpedNow]

By the way, I have more respect for Ford than ever before. They, basically on their own are building a better car utilizing a better car company procedure.

They still have a long way to go to reach Japanese quality.

[CoolBreeze]

Oh.. you bet they do!

Like I posted here in the past: American car manufacturers have NEVER been able to make a high quality 4 cylinder engine. Those big 8s could operate easily on sloppy tolerances and designs. The Japanese perfected the 4 cylinder engine many years ago and worked their way up to the 6s, while Detroit struggled with downsizing to the 6s and 4s. I for instance own a 4 cylinder turbo that could eat many of Detroit's 8s. More importantly, it will achieve well over 100,000 miles on this little engine, while Detroit's past 4 cylinders would be lucky to make 70,000. The point is that this same lack of Detroit engine technology has also affected the rest of the car in some manner. Not saying they cant do it, just saying they never really tried in the past. Now, they may have a change of heart, but is it too late? I think Ford is well ahead of GM and Chrysler in the 4 cylinder dept now.

I've always said... make a quality 4 cylinder engine, and the rest of the car quality will follow.... because a rugged 4 cylinder is the toughest challenge of all.

[cgarison]

By the way, I have more respect for Ford than ever before. They, basically on their own are building a better car utilizing a better car company procedure.

They still have a long way to go to reach Japanese quality.

Not true in the numbers that have been gathered in the last 3 model years. Toyota's quest for world domination has dropped their quality to the levels of the American car companies while the American car companies (sans Chrysler) have made huge strides in better build quality and overall fit/finish.

And I will say that my opinion of motors is that you will have to pry my small block V8 from my cold dead fingers. Yea, I understand the whole concept that turbo 4 really make many ponies, but I like brute strength of the V8 at very low RPMs. Mix my 4.6 ironblock with a set of airplane gears and I do not have to worry much about guzzing gas on the highway. How can you burn a lot of gasoline when you are cruise at 1800 RPMs at 75MPH????

The only issue is trying to keep the speed under 75MPH on proper touring machine.

[fearpeddler]

i bought my asian made car 8 years ago, almost 250k on it and I've only had to change the timing belt in it once... thats teh length of repairs, i'm on my 2nd set of brakes and then normal crap like tires and headlights.. but no major problems... my first car was a ford, was a piece of shit, spent more repairing the damn thing the first year I owned it than I paid for it, and it was in great shape and not too old when I bought it (only 4 or 5 years with 38k on it).. my second car was american, and nearly took my life due to a recall that I didnt get informed of till well after the accident when I was getting the car repaired, the guy at the repair shop was the person to tell me, I went to a dealership and gave them my info and was contacted by GM a few weeks later, they had me send in my reciepts for repairs due to this defect, which by that time I had owned the car for a few years, sent them a few years worth of reciepts totaling around 2k, 2 years ago I recieve my check from GM (well over 4 years after sending all this stuff to them), there were so many people involved in that recall because the part was used in so many different makes of their vehicles that my share of the pie came to a whopping 16 dollars and change...

Basically what i'm tryin to say is it costs enough to keep the privelage of being able to drive in this country, with insurance and repairs and whatnot, if your company goes under cause your product is shitty then obviously you should realize it and stop making shitty products. GM never realized it, I'm hearing good things about a few of the fords out there but it's gonna take alot for them to impress me into buying american again. People cant afford to piss away money every 4 years on a car.

[AmpedNow]

Not true in the numbers that have been gathered in the last 3 model years. Toyota's quest for world domination has dropped their quality to the levels of the American car companies while the American car companies (sans Chrysler) have made huge strides in better build quality and overall fit/finish.

The Corolla is still the best value in its class. The only people who could hate Toyota so much is people who have never drove one...or, UAW people. They well deserve the top perch. I've seen and driven plenty of them to know.

They were so far ahead of the Big 3, that even if their quality has dropped some, they're still ahead of Detroit.

These days, Toyota's bigger competition worries don't come from Detroit, but from South Korea. Hyundai and Kia has made huge gains in quality and reliability in recent years. Still not on par with Japan just yet, but close enough to make a dent in sales.

As for Chrysler, they cared about economy vehicles so much that they discontinued their POS Neon, and replaced it with an even worse POS called the Caliber. Their strength will always be the brute force Hemi, which I do like. But not enough to own one. I don't see how they can even begin to play catch-up at this point. They've taken themselves completely out of the economy game, which is not good for the long-term survival of the company.

This is the irony of the CfC program... It was meant to give a boost to the U.S. auto makers, yet they didn't have nearly as much econo-inventory as the Asian auto makers, So Toyota and Honda ate their lunch -- again.

[genlock]

For the foreseeable future, the past poor quality of Detroit autos and the past great quality
of Japanese autos is what will matter. I once had a Blazer that was awful and I will not
forgive GM for that. My Nissan truck is 20 years old and runs perfectly. I will remember that when it
becomes time to purchase a new truck. People keep their cars for longer periods now.
That alone will keep Japan in the forefront of sales for years even if their quality sinks
to the level of the Detroit companies. Ford, alone in the big 3, has a chance to survive.
They can thank their survival to their light trucks and little else.

[Hoosier Daddy]

They can thank their survival to their light trucks and little else.

The Crown Vic series is pretty awesome.
It's the American standard for police cars and taxicabs, two of the heaviest user/abusers of automobiles that you'll find.

[The People's DJ]

Just give me a '57 Chevy and I'd be the happiest person on Earth.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Just give me a '57 Chevy and I'd be the happiest person on Earth.

Now THAT'S a nice ride.

[Greg Goodfellow]

My grandfather owned a blue '57 Chevy. I was far too young to have purchased it. Nice car overall, but he had to cut a rubber ball in two and put the pieces under the hood to stop the rattling.

[cgarison]

They can thank their survival to their light trucks and little else.

The Crown Vic series is pretty awesome.
It's the American standard for police cars and taxicabs, two of the heaviest user/abusers of automobiles that you'll find.

And we only have 2 more years of production left. Ford has vowed to drop the car (again) in 2011. Although this is the third time they have tried to kill production of the best full size and only body on frame sedan.

FWIW, just installed a 1" swaybar on my new GrandMa and it has made a world of difference in handling. I am no longer scared to go into a turn with another car on the outside of me for fear that the body roll in the new model would cause the car to drift into the other car. Now to upgrade to dual exhaust (already have the P71 brackets for the left side) and the car will be perfect.

[CoolBreeze]

Great American streetcar scandal

The Great American streetcar scandal (also known as the General Motors streetcar conspiracy and the National City Lines conspiracy) is a conspiracy in which streetcar systems throughout the United States were dismantled and replaced with buses in the mid-20th century as a result of illegal actions by a number of prominent companies, acting through National City Lines (NCL), Pacific City Lines (on the West Coast, starting in 1938), and American City Lines (in large cities, starting in 1943).

The scandal's consequences were the rise of a permanent car culture in the United States and the lack of any cohesive intercity mass transit network, other than Amtrak, which exercises an effective monopoly on long distance passenger rail (see also Rail in the United States). The U.S. car culture persists today, nearly 70 years later, despite some local transit initiatives.

In addition to federal, state, and local dollars for roadway construction, automobile use was also encouraged through new zoning laws that required new businesses to construct a certain amount of parking based on the size and type of facility. The effect of this was to create a massive quantity of free parking spaces and to push businesses further back from the road. Many shopping centers and suburbs abandon sidewalks altogether, making pedestrian access dangerous. This had the effect of encouraging people to drive, even for short trips that might have been walkable, thus increasing and solidifying American auto-dependency. As a result, employment opportunities for people who were not wealthy enough to own a car and for people who could not drive (due to age or physical disabilities) became severely limited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Amer ... ar_scandal

[genlock]

Huntington has upgraded so (in)completely since 1938 that streetcar tracks are still visible in places in Huntington's streets.
8th st and other viaduct. Just this year, the streetcar maintenance barn was demolished for a Sheetz gas station.

[cgarison]

Huntington has upgraded so (in)completely since 1938 that streetcar tracks are still visible in places in Huntington's streets.
8th st and other viaduct. Just this year, the streetcar maintenance barn was demolished for a Sheetz gas station.

Philly is uncovering as many of these trolley car tracks as they can to convert the bus system back to electric powered street cars. The Girard Street line was brought back to life in August 2005 and has been a resounding success esp. with the 18 re-manufactured vintage PCC cars run on it.



And with the price of oil sky rocketing last summer, Septa also rolled (pardon the pun) electric "trolley" buses with a diesel backup for the route along Frankford Ave. in the greater northeast neighborhoods.



Note the price of gasoline is $3.94 in Mayfair, Philly above.

[Jet Black]

Great American streetcar scandal

The Great American streetcar scandal ... ... became severely limited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Amer ... ar_scandal

Workers of the world, we must unite to stop these bourgeois capitalist car drivers! No worker would want a car when public transportation is available to take you where the glorious state wants you to go!

No offense, Coolbreeze, but what a twisted view. I point out something not in the article: At that time in history it was much cheaper to run a bus on a city street that it was to maintain an rigid light rail system complete with electrical overhead cantenary (sp) wires, especially when a city was expanding from a central core into an suburaban sprawl. There is no public transportation because the market finds individual transportation much more useful.

[CoolBreeze]

In the past, public transportation was owned by private companies, not the state. Take the bus service here in the Kanawha Valley: Once a private company, now it's government owned with twice as many buses as needed, and you rarely see anyone riding them. The buses run crazy hours of the night to outlying areas where maybe one or 2 people may be seen riding, all the while costing a fortune to transport them. Us taxpayers foot the bill for this. We could supply cars to every bus rider here and save a TON of money in the process.

Also:

As I travel through much of Europe, (even though I have a rental car) I use public transportation as much as possible IF it involves light rail. It's fast, cheap, even fun. You don't have to worry about smelly thugs accosting you or otherwise spoiling your day. I'm not talking about stupid fat electric buses, but thin light rail, where you only have one seat on each side of the isle. These are wonderful, quite, clean, and efficient. My photo below:



Naturally, if the U.S. government got involved with something like this, it would just be another Amtrack.

[cgarison]

Naturally, if the U.S. government got involved with something like this, it would just be another Amtrack.

Amtrak in the northeast corridor is a great service if you are traveling long distances via rail and trough multiple regional rail areas like Philly to DC or to Boston. To go to NYC, I can drive to Hamilton, NJ to ride the the New Jersey Transit train for much less than taking Amtrak.

[cgarison]

For those that think that Toyota is the patron saint of the auto industry....

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/10/repo ... -legal-ac/

[AmpedNow]

If the lawsuit has merit, then let it go to court. Doesn't matter to me.

I never defended all of ToMoCo's business practices, alleged or otherwise, as a corporation. I've only defended the overall quality of their vehicles, of which I have plenty of lifetime experience with. I would testify to that on a stack of bibles.

With that said, their business practices probably are not any more shrewder than, say, Wal-Mart's... And whether or not a company is union has nothing to do with it. Shrewdness is just the way of big business in general.

However, I do agree that they risk losing their way if their biggest objective is dethroning GM in the US auto market... Their reputation for quality is what got them to where they are now. If they're now willing to skim on that, then they'll eventually lose anyway.

But to say that they just produce junk like everyone else now is still being a tad dishonest.