Rockefeller to seize internet

[weaver]

If this is an anti-terrorsim [sic] measure, how come you guys all of a sudden don't like it?

Because it's not an anti-terrorism measure, it's an anti-First Amendment and anti-freedom measure.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Bullshit.

[Jet Black]

I agree with you, Hoosier, this bill is bullshit.

Hey, did you see the article on Newsmax where they found out that way back when, your hero Ted tried to make a deal with the Soviets to discredit Reagan? I'm sure it was for the benefit of mankind, though.

[Jay Nunley]

If this is an anti-terrorsim [sic] measure, how come you guys all of a sudden don't like it?

Because it's not an anti-terrorism measure, it's an anti-First Amendment and anti-freedom measure.

O.K. What makes it that instead of anti-terrorism?

[Bob Campbell]

Because the Republicans didn't propose it.

[Lester]

If it's for national security, why didn't Senator Rockefeller propose it during the last administration?

[Hoosier Daddy]

If it's for national security, why didn't Senator Rockefeller propose it during the last administration?

I dunno, Lester. How come we didn't pass the Patriot Act when Bush Sr. was in office or during Newt's "Contract with America"?
Maybe the threat is much greater now than it was five or six years ago.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Hey, did you see the article on Newsmax where they found out that way back when, your hero Ted tried to make a deal with the Soviets to discredit Reagan? I'm sure it was for the benefit of mankind, though.

Get back to me after you guys come clean on Reagan and Bush sabotaging Jimmy Carter's attempts to free the hostages back in 1979.

[Bob Campbell]

If the ones in power administer the Internet like they've administered "Cash for Clunkers," we've got nothing to worry about.

Of course Cash for Clunkers is probably the most successful government program of the last 20 years. If the Iraq War had been run as well, we'd have been out by 2005.

[Lester]

Get back to me after you guys come clean on Reagan and Bush sabotaging Jimmy Carter's attempts to free the hostages back in 1979.

Because they held soooooo much power then.

Your tinfoil hat is ready.

[Dave Harman]

It's not just Obama that will have his finger on the router. Just imagine the worst President EVER. Would you give him this power? maybe G Bush? or even worse, Joe Biden?

2012 is just around the corner. Maybe you're giving Sarah Palin the ability to take emergency control of the internet. That would be sweet.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Your tinfoil hat is ready.

I'll clean it up for you and give it back later tonight.

[Hoosier Daddy]

It's not just Obama that will have his finger on the router. Just imagine the worst President EVER. Would you give him this power? maybe G Bush? or even worse, Joe Biden? 2012 is just around the corner. Maybe you're giving Sarah Palin the ability to take emergency control of the internet. That would be sweet.

This is a concern with the original and extended versions of the Patriot Act, too. I agree there are concerns, and that's why (in my first post in this thread) I wrote "Depending on how this is used, it isn't a bad idea ..."

All I ever said is the threat of cyberterrorism is real, and I believe that threat is growing. There is nothing here that stops the free and open use of the internet to discuss neo-nazi political views, download illegal music, or to look at porn. To paraphrase Tom Ridge, we can either be unprepared and get bitch-slapped someday, or we can be ready.

[AmpedNow]

*sigh*

I know this bill isn't a first amendment issue per se, at least on the surface, but how hard would it be for certain sites to be targeted if the entire internet becomes passed through one big filter in DC?

I'm convinced that 1st amendment rights is pretty much an Independent issue at this point. Both parties have proven that they can't stand the unbridled free flow of information and ideas among the masses, whether it be through the internet or broadcasting content. It's just for different reasons...

Liberals don't like dissenting points of view or bible teachings, while conservatives don't like pornography or anything related to sex.

Most Indies think that everyone has a right to speech and expression, and all content and information. It's up to the end user to filter it by their own discretion, not the government's. Once either side gets their foot in the door, it's all downhill from there.

Yes, I'm concerned about cyber attacks. But, is this a good way to prevent it without the potential of censorship eventually taking hold?

[Lester]

...while conservatives don't like pornography or anything related to sex....

Dude.... you are soooo wrong about that.

At least speaking for myself.

[Jay Nunley]

Really? This is what it is? You have a problem with this based on cheerleading for a political side? If that isn't it I ask my original question again.

[Bob Campbell]

Stop making sense Jay. It has no place on this thread.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Liberals don't like dissenting points of view or bible teachings...

Not true at all. There are some liberals who are this way, but most people classified as "liberal" are actually tolerant of other people's views to a fault. One of the biggest problems in Washington right now is with Democrats trying to find common ground with Republicans who claim they want bipartisanship but in reality are completely entrenched in the GOP bunker. They have taken an extreme Right wing position, they aren't budging, they aren't compromising -- not even a little bit, there is zero cooperation with the other side, and there is no constructive back-and-forth dialogue with those dissenting points of view. This attitude has become a hallmark of being a conservative.

while conservatives don't like pornography or anything related to sex.

Lester already answered that one for us.

[Jet Black]

Get back to me after you guys come clean on Reagan and Bush sabotaging Jimmy Carter's attempts to free the hostages back in 1979.

Mein Gott. Do you really believe that? You are FUBAR. Sabotaging Carter's attempts? That's such an outrageous twist of history I can only gape open-mouthed, beyond reasonable comment. Are you old enough to remember the Hostage Crisis? I sure am, and do. God Bless Ronald Reagan.

Of course Cash for Clunkers is probably the most successful government program of the last 20 years. If the Iraq War had been run as well, we'd have been out by 2005.

Outrageously poor reasoning. I'm not getting into this again. If you judge a program is a success wearin the government gives away money and people take it, you are correct. If you reason any further,... Ask a car dealer who has to finance $250,000 at his bank to cover the money the government has failed to pay back yet.

...How come we didn't pass the Patriot Act when Bush Sr. was in office or during Newt's "Contract with America"?
Maybe the threat is much greater now than it was five or six years ago.

Oh but that somebody in the GOP would propose something as great for this country as the Contract For America! A Great document, faithfully pursued, and the parts of it that came to pass without question have been of benefit to everybody in this country. But again Hoosier, which is it - you were just screaming your head off about the Patriot Act because GB43 proposed it and didn't really care about it per se, or you care about too much government power but are supporting suspension of of the 1st Amd. because your man is in power? Me, I like laws that benefit everybody, not just the guy with the power. I liked the Patriot Act, I have some concerns but looking at the details I think it is just, useful and Constitutional. But I can't think of any practical reason to limit internet access during, let's say, a Emmanuel-announced "Emergency." And, in combination with pending legislation that this administration wants to pass that would limit 1st Amd. communications on radio and tv, I think it's way dangerous for them to have this power. If Obama wants to limit the internet, let him sieze it by force like a regular totalitarian.

...I thought you guys liked it when the government dictated what could and could not be said in or on a public forum.

If this is an anti-terrorsim measure, how come you guys all of a sudden don't like it?

For once I'm not being a smart ass. Seriously. I'm asking what the difference is this time. I'm not one who believes you guys are against this simply because it comes from Democrats.

Seriously, Jay. I want the FCC to maintain a limit on profanity and sexual content on broadcast TV and radio which upholds a reasonable community standard, nothwithstanding the belief that absolute limitations can not be strictly defined to everyone's satisfaction. That, however, is a damn far cry from abdicating our 1st Amd. right by allowing the govt to shut down civilian access to the internet. I haven't seen the bill. Maybe after I read the particulars I'd feel different. But I don't think so. It gives the government too much power to stifle free polical expression. And Lord, as we've seen, everything since Obama has been elected has been an "Emergency," calling for immediate, swift, unexamined and Constitutionally questionable government action. I can only imagine what internet "emergency" might occur the day before they try to pass the health care takeover bill. But seriously, Jay, you really don't seee the difference between those two govenement actions? The devil as always is in the details.

[Lester]

One of the biggest problems in Washington right now is with Democrats trying to find common ground with Republicans who claim they want bipartisanship but in reality are completely entrenched in the GOP bunker. They have taken an extreme Right wing position, they aren't budging, they aren't compromising -- not even a little bit, there is zero cooperation with the other side, and there is no constructive back-and-forth dialogue with those dissenting points of view.

Wow... that stance looks familiar... like back when the Republican's ruled the roost and the Demoncrats wanted to be assheads.

Now the Republicans are in the catbird seat. Dems don't really need their help, they have the majority. Republicans can sit there going "Bad idea... bad idea... worse idea... bad idea..." and slap a big fat "I told you so" on everyone in 2012.

And as to Jay: Sorry, I don't think I understand your question. Are you equating the ability to say "piss", "fuck", "shit" and "cunt" on public airwaves to shutting down the Internet?