Engine sludge is killing cars... even Toyota's.

[CoolBreeze]

I've been following engine sludge issues for some time now. It appears that due to EPA requirements (mostly), engines are burning up left and right on many brands... and have been for some time now.

Example: My friend owns a Toyota Avalon, a top of the line car that she bought new in 2004. She had 78 thousand miles on it when the engine burned up this past week. The dealerships answer was a $4,500 used engine with 30 day warranty, or a new $9,500 engine.

Who ever heard of a Toyota engine burning up with 78,00 miles... especially on a high dollar car?

Well... seems they've been burning up of a long time now. Other Toyota models also. But VW, Chrysler and others are experiencing the same problem. Toyota actually had a program to repair these engines up to 2003, while never admitting to any fault. Toyota is in the spotlight simply because they have the most cars on the road now. But other car makers are experiencing this issue also.

Just type in "Engine Sludge" into Google and see what comes up.

For Toyota owners, here's just one of many good sites addressing the issue in the past:
http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

[cgarison]

Toyota has been building V6 motors that suffer from sludge issues for at least 15 years now.

Frequent oil changes and proper maintenance does not prevent the problem. The issues persist on both Toyota and Lexus models.

And Toyota refers to the issue as "oil gelling" not sludge.


I have never had this issue with a Ford or Chrysler product in the last 20 years of vehicle ownership.

[Tom Taggart]

Girl friend is driving my '02 Taurus, so I've lost track---but that car hit 250,000 back in early April.

[CoolBreeze]

And Toyota refers to the issue as "oil gelling" not sludge.
I have never had this issue with a Ford or Chrysler product in the last 20 years of vehicle ownership.

Yes I know, but they can call it Jello for all I care... it's still sludge.

As far as Chrysler, there are hundreds of pages on their problem also:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=chrysler ... i-R6mbKWrc

[genlock]

I have seen it on a jeep with a 6 cyl engine.

[cgarison]

I have seen it on a jeep with a 6 cyl engine.

I have to admit that the old inline 6 in Jeeps and AMC (which was still partly manufactured made by International Harvester - Navistar till discontinuance in 2006) had some issues with sludge, but lots of proper maintenance could keep the issues minimal. There was a reason why this is the only motor that I have learned how to perform a complete rebuild under the watchful eye of Granddad in the 1980s as he had me help tear down the 232 cu. in. in the 78 Concord and the 252 in the 83 Eagle. For just under a hundred thousand miles each, they both were pretty clean.

The difference between the oil gel in Toyota and the sludge issue in Jeeps is that I can prevent sludge buildup with high quality base stock oil blended with proper detergents in 95% of motors. The 2.7L Chrysler and Toyota V6s form sludge regardless of the type of oil of frequency of changes due to improper designs. When a motor gels Mobil 1 changed between 3000-4000 miles, then a significant design issue exists. Mobil 1 is a solid performer capable of 10,000 mile oil change intervals in cars with oil pans in excess of 6 quarts. My old GrandMa had a 7 qt oil pan so I never worried about changing oil until I crossed the 9800 mile mark and engine trouble was the only thing that car did not have when I traded it. (failing torque converter, faulty windshield wiper wiring, leaks windsield water tray that shorted out the #8 coil pack regularly, improperly attached front subframe, dodgey alternator, slightly crushed idler pulley bearings, failed pedal adjuster gearing, electrical gremlins that caused havoc with headlight relays in LCM.) When I pulled the drain plug on the ol' fellow, the oil was the color of black coffee (still translucent as it came out of the oil pan) and was as thin as water. On the other extreme, my old Wrangler only had a 3.5 qt oil pan so I changed the oil every 2500 miles with Mobil 1. The oil was slightly more viscous than water and very dark in color and appeared more like espresso than weak drip coffee.

Engine design is a huge factor combined with a properly sized oil pan.

[CoolBreeze]

Here's another complaint from the Net:

Mike of Flemington, NJ May 16, 2009


2006 Toyota Avalon with 88k miles had a major engine failure that caused a bearing in the Variable Valve Timing (VVT) section to explode and seize the engine. The car was being driven on the highway at the time of failure and no warning was indicated before the car stalled. Service bulletin from Toyota exists indicating a potential problem with oil flow to the VVT that can create a major failure. No recall though from Toyota has been issued. According to the service department, Toyota does not sell engines and the repair would be in excess of $13,000.00 in parts alone. Toyota is charging $500.00+ to troubleshoot the failure regardless if the repair is performed. My option is to find a used moor and have it shippped to toyota at my expense and they would install for$2100.00. complained to toyota corporate in CA and opened a case number 0905111933 and was informed that the Regional Toyota Parts representative denied any support for the failure. Car has a balance of $9000 on a loan and no recourse but to have the vehicle repaired.

[Big Media]

Sounds like it is time for a class action. Granted, they make rich lawyers even richer, but if that many people are having the same kinds of trouble out of Toyota V6s, then they are defective and Toyota needs to replace them. One way or another.

[CoolBreeze]

If 3000 people managed to find this site and take the time to fill out the information, I can imagine what the REAL numbers are... http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/ ... gi?TMC2003