Looks like GM and Chrysler are toast

[cgarison]

Rumor has it (according to Bloomberg) President O'Bama will announce Chrysler's bankruptcy at press conference tomorrow.

WooHoo!!!! Two Chrysler bankruptcies in my lifetime!

So does this mean Lido be available to make more commercials if Snoop Dog is not available?????

[Jet Black]

So, what do you think, Jeepy? Is 2009 the last model year for Dodges and Chryslers?

[Mike]

So, what do you think, Jeepy? Is 2009 the last model year for Dodges and Chryslers?

Unless Jeep is retooled to make these:

They will soon go the way of Pontiac.

Obama now controls GM and Chrysler. They will be funded to manufacture Eco-Trabants like the "Dumb" car I linked above.

Ford will have to be brought under control some way. They have resisted the bail out. That is unacceptable. The One MUST control all.

[CoolBreeze]

GM even ruined trains 50 years ago:


GM advertisement from a December 1955 issue of the Saturday Evening Post.

GM's "lightweight with a heavyweight future" was introduced at a time when U.S. passenger train revenues were steadily declining due to competition from airlines and private automobile travel.

The cars, based on GM bus designs and using an air cushioning system, were rough riding and not very comfortable for the passengers. The design of the underpowered experimental EMD LWT12 locomotive section rendered even routine maintenance extremely difficult and time-consuming. Eventually the three trainsets that were manufactured were retired after only a decade's use in 1966.

Wow... that describes many of their cars too.

[cgarison]

So, what do you think, Jeepy? Is 2009 the last model year for Dodges and Chryslers?

There is a reason why on April 4, 2009 I drove away from a brand new, heavily discounted 2008 Jeep Liberty with SelecTrac four wheel drive, sliding safari roof, leather, and my standard white color at Lanihan Jeep and purchased another Ford manufactured Land Yacht.

Jeep will change. Italian design/flair do not mix well with off road prowess meaning that Jeep will fail completely under Fiat. To prevent this from happening, Fiat will dump the offroad legend to Renault-Nissan where this cursed manufacturer of SUVs will now devastate the Japanese auto standard in a way comparable to only Fat Man's impact on Nagasaki.

The Hemi trademark will fade away once again as people are no longer interested in thirsty push rod V8s with hemispherical heads. Renault-Nissan may also take the Ram truck technology so they do not have to create their own update to the less than stellar Titan truck.

Minivans will stay with Fiat, but they will build them under a multitude of brands like VW (Routan) and perhaps Renault. Even GM could be interested in licensing the technology in the Caravan/Voyager/Town&Country to kick start a new van for Chevy/Buick.

The only cars that Chrysler has that are worth more than zilch are the rear drive LX cars. The 300C/Charger/Challenger may be worth selling to another automaker (FoMoCo is a serious possibility) but the new owner will have to pull the tooling out of the Brampton Assembly Plant and move it to another location. Quality is a mindset that has to be built from the most basic level of line worker to the biggest executives. When DamnYour-Chrysler was formed in 1998, the Germans were set on pushing their engineered parts bin on Chrysler and not creating an environment of quality and empowerment in their 'Merican division.

The Viper has already been given a death sentence. The Sprinter Van will continue to be sold as a Freightliner. The Journey is the right crossover at the proper price and great options, but it was just too late to the party and the Pacifica already killed the domestic taste for Chrysler CUVs.

Praise God! The current Sebring/Avenger along with the Caliber/Compass/Patriot will die and fade into obscurity. The Jeep Wrangler may get something other than a anemic Minivan motor under the hood.

Will Chrysler and Dodge die? The odds are in favor of these two brands disappearing from the American landscape in the next 18-24 months. GM is making plans now to fill the void that will be left when a couple of Chrysler's current key models are no longer produced (Can you say Chevy (Holden) Police Interceptor along with the return of the Caprice Classic.) And FoMoCo is preparing to battle the onslaught of a new breed of commuter car to hit American shores in the next 2 years with the creation of their Fiesta Movement campaign and development of an American Mondeo and a new Focus based on the Euro model. Even the Ford Transit Connect will be hitting dealer lots this fall and is expected to seriously impact Econoline sales and cannibalize part of the SuperDuty market.

The automotive world will be much different in the next 5 years. And I am far from excited about the future.

[genlock]

Does this nuke the deal that gave the UAW 55% of Chrysler?

[cgarison]

Does this nuke the deal that gave the UAW 55% of Chrysler?

No, the UAW will retain 55% (majority) ownership of the company, but the caveat is that will not give them the rights of the majority share holder and control of the final company that exits bankruptcy.

[genlock]

Does this nuke the deal that gave the UAW 55% of Chrysler?

No, the UAW will retain 55% (majority) ownership of the company, but the caveat is that will not give them the rights of the majority share holder and control of the final company that exits bankruptcy.

Good, I hate to see what Marx and Lenin would do to an already troubled company.

[Jet Black]

Stay tuned, you'll find out.

[cgarison]

Good, I hate to see what Marx and Lenin would do to an already troubled company.

(sigh) The former Nazi's held it for 9 years and decided it was time to break and run. Now the former Fascists will take it and do what????????

Considering that Fiat swindled about $5 Billion from GM between 2000 and 2005, how much will Fiat grub from the UAW coffers before this deal is done?

hahahahahahaha

Funny how talking about Italians with their hands in Union money is just so damn appropriate. And this time they have the government's endorsement.

Brilliant!

[Jet Black]

Dang, I'll never be able to get a Challenger. Someday we'll look back on 2009 like we do 1970.

[Bob Campbell]

It'll all play out in bankruptcy court. I think UAW slated for 35%, not 55, but all in the hands of the judge now.

[cgarison]

Chrysler is the sacrificial lamb slaughtered at the alter of O'Bama to show the bond holders of GM that he is serious about making all parties concede to his way.

The only problem with GM is that a Chapter 11 bankruptcy will bankrupt the United States when the Treasury Dept. has to print a trillion dollars to cover AIG tab for bad insurance policies issued against these bonds that GM would not go broke.

Barry O'Bama just hit the flush lever and the country is now circling the drain.

[Arp2]

Barry O'Bama just hit the flush lever and the country is now circling the drain.

Yep....and most people don't see it and have no idea what's comin'. They'll think "he tried" and "it sounded like a plan to me."

Well, yeah....it was a plan!

Interestingly, in the non-American English-speaking world, "scheme" is the word used.

[Tom Taggart]

Marketwatch reports bondholders may push Chrysler into a chapter 7. Then we will see the selling off of bits a pieces of the company.

Note that the minivans are already made/assembled in Europe at Chrysler's Graz, Austria plant. Believe some models of Jeeps are assembled there as well. Considerable number of both on the roads in Munich when I was there 7 years ago. As noted, the VW Routan is really a Chrysler minivan made at the Brampton, Ontario plant. The Sprinter is a copy of a Mercedes commercial van.

Important to remember, despite the spin, that the secured creditors and the bankruptcy trustee control what happens now. Given the likely prospect that GM will soon follow Chrysler into bankruptcy, I doubt if any of these schemes to divide equity between the unions and Fiat being floated about will fly. For one thing, there was a recent rumor that Fiat was interested in buying a stake in Opel (perhaps with the German government). So there is not much chance that even a drastically downsized Chrysler could survive once it emerged from a Chapter 11. Hence the likely plan, which will be pushed by these secured creditors, is to sell off the pieces and divide what cash this raises.

[Bob Campbell]

Not up to the bondholders now. It's up to the bankruptcy judge. Most of the bond holders had agreed to the government plan. Small minority of hedge funds had held out. If the judge agrees to Chrysler bankruptcy plan (whatever it may now be), that's that.
Chrysler could emerge from Chapter 11 and fail again, then go into 7.

[cgarison]

For one thing, there was a recent rumor that Fiat was interested in buying a stake in Opel (perhaps with the German government).

Along with the fact that Fiat has been talking about leveraging the Saturn dealer network in the US (once abandoned by GM) to distribute their more fuel efficient vehicles. This means all Fiat needs to accomplish is to pass NHTSA crash testing and EPA/Carb emmissions certifacations and they can be sold in the US. Combine that with Opel which already has the Aura/Astra/Vue/Sky in the US and Fiat has a ready made lineup of cars in production.

How much effort does it take to install the federally mandated OBD-II port in all Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo models that would be cleared for import into the US??????

[Arp2]

Given the likely prospect that GM will soon follow Chrysler into bankruptcy, I doubt if any of these schemes to divide equity between the unions and Fiat being floated about will fly. For one thing, there was a recent rumor that Fiat was interested in buying a stake in Opel....

Wait a minute....doesn't Opel have some sort of relationship with GM? I could be -- heck, am -- terribly confused since recently doing some reading about GM's presence in Australia and getting a bunch of Daewoo and Opel stuff jumbled in my mind.....

Most of the bond holders had agreed to the government plan. Small minority of hedge funds had held out.

That's not true....that's just what Obama read out loud off his teleprompter today. You gotta realize that the fantasy Bizarro world that's been created over the past two or three years is in a phase of rapid expansion and that statements like that may be utterly false.

The truth is that some hedge funds and many small and individual investors have no interest in the current gubmint scheme. The banks would object, too, but, like dealing with the mafia, they'd get body parts broken and family members killed if they made a peep as Barry O continues to hold guns to their heads even though they can and want to give back all the money and get out of the gubmint deal. By controlling the banks and the debt/bonds they hold, The Party gets to hand over ownership to the unions with virtually no one in position to object.

[Jet Black]

I agree. Why on God's green earth would anyone take a deal for 20 cents on the dollar to please Obama, when they could go with bankruptcy and get 40 cents? If I envested in those funds, I know which option I'd want management to pick.

[CoolBreeze]

Wait a minute....doesn't Opel have some sort of relationship with GM?

Opel IS GM... Europe, and Fiat is trying to take over the company now:

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... ilout+2009