Looks like GM and Chrysler are toast

[cgarison]

If GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy protection, the UAW and their retiree's might just have to kiss the gravy train goodbye..

For the life of me, I'll never understand how decent, hardworking ordinary people have so much resentment and hatred towards other decent, hardworking ordinary people who are retired now and have a pension after working somewhere for 30+ years...

Unions are a cancer on the ass of the productive.

I don't give a shit about my "brother worker", except in doing what I'm supposed to do and expecting him or her to do what they are supposed to do. They wouldn't give any more regard for me (and probably less than that) if we were union.

Come on my side of this Mason Dixon and get a job. You will love the fact that you get paid 3 times as much as back home for the same level of work. I have my cake and eat it too.

Right to work laws in states are the scourge that is destroying our nation and making places like Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana look more like Mexico instead of the US. And corporate leaders in their ivory towers are gloating from the savings they put in their pockets.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Right to work laws in states are the scourge that is destroying our nation and making places like Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana look more like Mexico instead of the US. And corporate leaders in their ivory towers are gloating from the savings they put in their pockets.

That's the part that all the Rush Limbaugh/FOX News fed anti-union zealots never see ... or choose not to see.

[AmpedNow]

Well, I've lived in both RTW states (VA), and shop states (WV), and there has always been many, many more jobs in VA than here.

I've come to the conclusion that I would rather be in an environment that has many jobs to choose from than fight over few jobs that is usually granted by seniority, or who you know.

The pay may not be quite the same, and there are shitty companies who take full advantage of RTW laws and treat their employees like trash. But the nice thing about it is, if you don't like your job, go find another one. Not hard to do...

WV's economic climate would be much better if it ever became a RTW state. Maybe not to the extent of neighboring states, but it would still get more "spillover" expansion from them.

It will never happen because corporate distrust is deeply rooted here, going back to the coal baron and carpetbagger days. There was good reason then, but things do change...

[Bob Campbell]

The number of jobs available in VA as opposed to WV has nothing to do with WV being a "shop state". There's going to be more in VA no matter what. 10 times the population, major cities, much more diversification. Try comparing WV to say, Montana, or another comparable sized state.

[genlock]

Or compare WV to North Carolina, where everybody has moved for employment.

[Bob Campbell]

And which has a higher unemployment rate than WV.

[genlock]

At this moment, yes.

[Mike]

At this moment, yes.

Which won't last. WV lags the rest of the country. The worst of this recession will hit us later and will last past it's end for the rest of the country.

[Force Commander]

At this moment, yes.

Which won't last. WV lags the rest of the country. The worst of this recession will hit us later and will last past it's end for the rest of the country.

Nah. WV might end up toward the bottom, but Michigan will be the state that drags the tub for sure. They are in super trouble due to the manufacturing base moving out (along with population), and their answer is more socialism, raise taxes (again) and even more regulation. If you look at what is happening there, that is what the rest of the nation is heading toward as far as how government operates.

[Bob Campbell]

Why is it that we toss around the "socialism" word, but no real socialists will say we are. Not the American Socialist Party, nor any of the Democratic Socialists of Europe. Could it be because, what we're doing is not really socialism? Hmmm....

[fearpeddler]

IMO this is really communism masked in socialism wearing capitalist clothes..... if that makes any sense to anyone other than me....

[Hoosier Daddy]

"Socialism" is the new Karl Rove-approved Right Wing Sneer Word. It replaces "Liberal".
Dittoheads everywhere try to include it in every spoken or written sentence.

[CoolBreeze]

WV, being the only bastard state in the Union ( we were formed illegally so as to help the Union cause during the Civil war even though 2/3s of our citizens were Southern sympathizers ) has had close ties with the federal government ever since.

That fact has helped keep us a welfare state and ripe for Unions. The problem with Unions is that they (like some Corporations) become drunk with power and corruption, and soon we're paying $25,000 for cars that suck. No one can seem to strike a fair balance, both Unions and Corporations seem to go too far too often. This isn't 1919 any more. Kids don't work the mines. It's time to re think the Union mindset.

Kinda funny how most of the Confederate states have done so well the last 20 years, while the Union states are crumbling.

[Mike]

And the decay in the South is mostly from yankees who flee the high tax states to come here and then start demanding the nanny state and it's high taxes...

[Greg Goodfellow]

[quote="CoolBreeze"]WV, being the only bastard state in the Union ( we were formed illegally so as to help the Union cause during the Civil war even though 2/3s of our citizens were Southern sympathizers ) has had close ties with the federal government ever since.

Any time Virginia wants to take us back, let 'em. Charleston has virtually ignored this part of West Virginia. Taxation without representation. Or better yet, divide WV into three different parts and START OVER. Neither panhandle has any relation to southern West Virginia. Yep, I'm insane. At least this way, mapmakers could be forgiven for drawing the new states incorrectly, as they never really got the hang of portraying' Almost Heaven' correctly.

Sorry to threadjack.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Charleston ignores Huntington.

[fearpeddler]

Charleston ignores Huntington.

i think theres more towns than just charleston ignoring huntington...

[Bob Campbell]

There's a reason for that.

[Hoosier Daddy]

There's a reason for that.

And that reason would be ...

[/curious]

[AmpedNow]

The number of jobs available in VA as opposed to WV has nothing to do with WV being a "shop state". There's going to be more in VA no matter what. 10 times the population, major cities, much more diversification. Try comparing WV to say, Montana, or another comparable sized state.

Okay, fair enough. Not the greatest comparison...

But I still stand by my comment on WV becoming a RTW state. If you compare WV to other similar-sized RTW states in the Midwest and South during normal economic times, it's no comparison. Their unemployment rate is far lower than here. I remember reading earlier this decade that South Dakota and Nebraska had unemployment rates below 2%. 5% is considered full employment by most economists. Below 5%, there are usually more jobs than there are people.

Ergo, it's not hard to see why illegal immigration was so often exploited, but that's another topic.

The difference is the kids in the Midwest leave by choice, often choosing larger cities for the excitement, not for lack of good-paying jobs. Here, many don't want to leave, but usually have to out of economic necessity, because of the lack of good-paying jobs.

I'm convinced that Charleston actually doesn't want any growth, because too many "outsiders" threaten their power base. They would rather allow another generation of West Virginians to move away than risk giving it up.

As for Michigan, their screwed no matter what. Even if they reversed their socialism overnight, there's still the 8-month winters they have no control over...