New police cruiser design

[Force Commander]

Ford is killing the Crown Vic. and Carbon Motors Inc. is hoping to fill that void in 2010.

http://www.carbonmotors.com/

It features a High Output Diesel Engine that improves fuel Economy an est. 30%.
It is loaded with safety features and other functionalitys only needed by Law Enforcement.
I love the Imbedded lights in the roof line, they stretch from the A pillar all the way back to the Deck lid.
It will arrive as a turnkey package, fully equipped and complete with paint and decals.
They will never be sold to consumers (bummer), when your E7 reaches it's end of life it is shipped back to Carbon Motors for recycling.
They are currently reviewing input from Law Enforcement regarding any changes or features they would like to see.
So, it is basically a Vehicle designed by Law Enforcement, For Law Enforcement.
I Like it, just wondering what the law enforcement guys around here thought.

[Dr. Whiplash]

I passed this along to a close friend who's a veteran police officer. His reply is that, for starters, Carbon Motors would need to actually build cars - not prototypes. Then these cars would need to pass the Michigan State Police road test, which is apparently the Cop Car Standard. Then they would need to be field tested for a year or two or three by willing police agencies. Then maybe some cities and counties might try them.

Cops tend to be conservative and skeptical by nature. It will take a lot more than images and promises to get them out of their Crown Vics.

[Hoosier Daddy]

First thoughts:

The concept is great. Police have never had a vehicle that was custom designed for their needs, unlike a fire engine, a rescue vehicle, or an ambulance. They always had to take a beefed up family car and adapt it to law enforcement use.

The manufacturer is an unknown, so I doubt you'd sell a lot of vehicles until they were a proven road unit. The money will be in large fleet sales, especially to state agencies and departments like LAPD and NYPD. These departments have bid specs designed around Crown Victorias or Impalas and those would need to be changed -- something not always easily or quickly done in a bureaucracy.

What about service? Where does a smaller agency (in Southern West Virginia, for example) take a "Carbon E7" for a new front end tie rod or to get an alternator replaced? Who will do their warranty work? Towing the car to New Jersey or Arizona for service isn't an option, and neither is fixing it yourself.

The specs look great, but I would worry about their "don't add anything" policy. An Ohio State Patrol car has a siren box, an 800 MHz trunking radio, a 700 MHz vehicular repeater system, VHF high band and low band radios, a scanner, separate radar and laser units for speed measurement, an external radar antenna, a CB radio, a GPS unit, a laptop computer, directional amber flashing lights in the rear deck, a roof mounted lightbar and siren speaker arrangement, tail light flasher units, LED lights in the rear window, and a slew of porcupine antennas on the roof and trunk deck. OSP is pissy about how all this stuff is installed, and they have their own radio techs that do the job under close supervision. According to Carbon's website, this would violate the warranty on the E7. Most big agencies will say "thanks, but no thanks" after hearing that.

Finally, the car is ugly. It's like a fusion of a 2007 Dodge Charger and a 2001 Chevy Impala. The Crown Vic has classic styling (many people think family-owned street versions of the Vic are an undercover police car) and has the legroom in the front and back seats for police work. The E7 looks small, more like the Charger or the newest Impalas. Still, 28-30 MPG on diesel is impressive, especially with the performance specs.

This is a wait and see ...

[Lester]

*IF* it turns out to be feasible, I suspect they'd just get snapped up by one of the major players.

[Hoosier Daddy]

*IF* it turns out to be feasible, I suspect they'd just get snapped up by one of the major players.

Quite possible, but one of the reasons listed for keeping the price low was "a brand new company unencumbered by legacy payroll and health care premiums" or something like that. In other words, no retirees and associated health care and pension costs. But would those savings be offset by having existing suppliers, assembly lines, parts, and a national web of dealers and factory authorized service centers?

One positive here is this may force existing manufacturers to seriously consider designing a true police car. With the Crown Vic going bye-bye, law enforcement, fire chiefs, and even taxicab companies are being left with Chevy Nova sized Impalas and Chargers -- vehicles that wouldn't be a pimple on the ass of a real police car like a Plymouth Fury III or a Dodge Polara back in the day.

My gut tells me the Carbon E7 will go the way of the DeLorean.

[genlock]

Will it be powered by compressed natural gas?
Have a donut holder?

[genlock]

I have long thought that a market existed for fleet autos and light trucks.
A solid design, never changing style and efficient drive train would be
a selling point for many types of fleet owners. The old checker cab design
might be brought back to service the livery market with hybrid LNG-electric
drive for economy and the legendary space of the checker providing the draw.
A replacement for the crown vic would be more diffacult as cops need power
and a reasonable amount of space for their duties. I think a standard
design for ease of fleet maintenance (parts, skills) and a thrifty drive train
would draw customers. In the light truck field, standard drive train, easy to maintain,
never changing style and body parts, large cab, no frills (chrome or stripes),
chassis cab, work bed ordered with truck. A single plant could produce
each type of vehicle and reduce costs to where the fleet could break away
from the modified passenger cars we have today.

[Dave Loudin]

All the executives save one listed on the site's team page are old Ford hands.

[Jet Black]

Man, what a great money-making idea. Whip up some CGI pics of a futuristic police car, make some big claims, take some deposits from Green politicians on non-existant merchandise deliverable at a non-specified date. When you get enough deposits, go out of business.

[cgarison]

Man, what a great money-making idea. Whip up some CGI pics of a futuristic police car, make some big claims, take some deposits from Green politicians on non-existant merchandise deliverable at a non-specified date. When you get enough deposits, go out of business.

Yep. I feel you on that whole line.

I have read that 2010 is the last year for the Crown Vic/ Grand Marquis/Towncar.

But wasn't production of the Towncar supposed to end in 2007? And now we have 2008 model lingering around in inventory and 2009 models hitting dealer lots as I type. 2006 was the last year for a civilian Crown Victoria yet rogue Ford dealers were stocking a few 2008 full size body on frame cars on their lots here and there (I found these by accident at a PA Ford dealer near the used car side between some Police Interceptors and used former rental fleet Grand Marquis.) And the Grand Marquis keeps being killed and yet it still sells better than the Montego or Sable that replaced it.

Well, Ford shot themselves in the foot while stepping on their dick this year (MY 2009) with the GranMa being special order only with no new inventory on dealer lots (except for that $hitload of lightly used, nearly new former fleet vehicles which will still kill the sell the Montego/Sable.) Now all the old folks in Florida will be waiting on used GranMas, Towney's or they will purchase the insanely obese Toyota Avalon which is a much better original of the Taurus/Sable/MKS train wrecked copy.

And my apologies to the Interpreter. His Ford 500 is a fine car, but is is not the choice for me with its tiny foot wells and wide center console that rubs my right leg. Either I am damn old or just too used to that bench seat/column shift with just the right amount of V8 power under the hood.

Back to my point, I will believe the Crown Vic era is dead when all the workers in St. Thomas, Ontario are laid off and the plant is razed like the Ranger Assembly Plant in Edison, NJ which is now the home of a life style center (fancy name for a strip mall) anchored by Home Depot.

[Jet Black]

Let's hope the Green Socialists and high gas prices don't stop GM's new full-sized RWD platform, which will no doubt become the de facto cruiser of choise as soon as it hits the market. They've already killed Cadillac's new super-cool V8, for which GM was all prepped to build a brand-new plant, now cancelled. Thanks so much, EPA, CAFE, and Green Psuedo-Scientists everywhere.

Yeea, CG, why the hell all car makers are hell-bent to put a useless, overly-wide console into every car is a bewilderment to me. If they made cars ten feet wide, they would put in two 20-inch bucket seats and and a 5-foot-wide console.

[cgarison]

Let's hope the Green Socialists and high gas prices don't stop GM's new full-sized RWD platform,

Too Late. The only two cars on the Zeta platform will be the G8 and Camaro. The rest are on hold. Indefinite hold considering the current state of GM.

Yeea, CG, why the hell all car makers are hell-bent to put a useless, overly-wide console into every car is a bewilderment to me. If they made cars ten feet wide, they would put in two 20-inch bucket seats and and a 5-foot-wide console.

I test drove a G8 GT two weeks ago. Good car but I was thoroughly surprised that there was not much more under my foot (that could be put to the pavement without triggering the traction control) than my current Grand Marquis which is a huge surprise considering the GT was an LS6 motor based on the design in the Z06 Corvette. It was fast off the line, but I not enough to give up the comfort of my car. And I know how to drive a body on frame car so unless it can handle like a Vette, I am not impressed. The console was not in my way, but the footwell on the drivers side was really tight and there was no room for my left foot. Good car for short trips, but it would be uncomfortable as hell driving between Philly and Ashland, KY. Sorry GM. I will purchase a 2wd SuperCrew F150 5.4 L V8 before I would purchase this car. I am a big, red blooded lard ass American that demands a vehicle that fits my body. Not a car that I can wear that gets a 5 Star crash test rating. If I am going to get a car that I have to put on and take off like a jacket, it is going to be an early 1990s C4 Corvette Convertible with a newly replaced steering column.

Not only am I getting old, I am getting cranky.









HEY YOU KIDS! QUIT PLAYING AROUND ON MY LAWN!





See. Old Fart. And only in my mid 30's.

[genlock]

Scottsdale, AZ., Sept. 24, 2008 - According to Automotive News' Chrissie Thompson, Bill Heard Enterprises, the country's top Chevrolet dealer group, is closing the doors at all of its 13 dealerships at the end of business today, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

The company notified the stores' general managers at 2 p.m. today, the source said, who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to speak.

High fuel prices, cancelled floorplanning from GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on trucks and SUVs, a soft national economy and struggles in local markets had troubled the company, which on Sept. 12 closed its store in Scottsdale, Ariz.

In the end, the company could not raise operating capital and could not finance its floorplan, the source said. Company officials have discussed closing the company since Friday, the source said.

Bill Heard Enterprises, of Columbus, Ga., ranks No. 13 on the Automotive News list of the top 125 U.S. dealership groups, with 2007 group revenue of $2.13 billion.

[Jet Black]

Somebody in Washington better do something, like fast. John McCain to the rescue! Obama, meanwhile, can do two things at once - keep on campaigning, and avoid his responsibilities as Senator. I guess Change, as the old saw goes, means never having to say you're sorry.

[genlock]

Chrysler dealership in Huntington folded a few weeks ago.
Former Davis Chrysler.
Now the dealership is White Chrysler.
If it is the famous "Cowboy White", we are sure to see
a "flood" of used cars available at creek bottom prices.
So sez new salespeople Ike, Gustov and Katrina.

[Dave Loudin]

Back to Carbon Motors for a second

I would not be surprised if there isn't already a plan for Ford to take them over or, at least, confidence on the part of the executive team that Ford will scoop them up.

[weaver]

High fuel prices, cancelled floorplanning from GMAC Financial Services, a reliance on trucks and SUVs, a soft national economy and struggles in local markets had troubled the company, which on Sept. 12 closed its store in Scottsdale, Ariz.

It seems the dealer didn't appreciate the buying public's desire and need for more fuel-efficient models.

[cgarison]

Back to Carbon Motors for a second

I would not be surprised if there isn't already a plan for Ford to take them over or, at least, confidence on the part of the executive team that Ford will scoop them up.

Where is Ford going to get the money??? It sure as hell is not going to come from their bottom line.

And which cars put the most dough per unit on the bottom line at Ford????

The F150? SuperDuty? Expedition? Navigator?

No.

It is the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, and Towncar. And the last time I looked Ford gives these things away with at least $5K-$10K on the hood depending on model and volume discounts. And they are still driving huge amounts of cash to the bootom line on each unit sold.

If the CAW were smart, they would beg Ford to keep STAP open and not cease production and roll to a few cuts in bennies. Ford would eagerly jump at that opportunity. OTOH, if CAW beats their chests like they have the last three years, I will replace my 2003 GrandMa with a 2010 Towncar. After that, who knows what I will purchase.