Hurricane Ike Gas effects

[Force Commander]

I wonder how much they will hit us up for in the aftermath from this storm. Here are some early reports of spikes in prices.

http://www.wvva.com/global/story.asp?s=8998682

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/homepage ... ce-gouging

http://www.wkyx.com/local-news-details.asp?NewsID=7526

http://www.wkyt.com/news/headlines/28287849.html



http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/busine ... s_ike.html

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... =rss_daily

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080911/ap_ ... oil_prices

http://www.wral.com/business/story/3531594/

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/521845.html

[Clay JD Walker]

I'm amazed at all of this...gas this morning at the station next to my house in High Point was still 3.58...lined up in the entire parking lot...5.00 by noon...now, everyone on the main drags through High Point is all out of fuel...in my opinion, we're hording, and throwing off the system...we're as guilty as those supplying the fuel...simple supply and demand...it just sucks because I have a big event in Reidsville (an hour away from here) in the morning, and we have a fleet of vehicles that need to go...mine included...which is on 1/2 tank...friggin great.

[Dave Harman]

The profiteering bastards who take advantage today deserve their appointment with Karma and God. More people are likely to die tonight than perished on 9/11/01.

At 10:25pm HOUSTON (AP) - Authorities say tens of thousands have ignored evacuation orders and are staying behind as Hurricane Ike takes aim at the Texas coast.
An Associated Press survey shows that in three counties alone, some 90,000 people have chosen not to leave despite dire warnings from forecasters.
The emergency management coordinator for Galveston County estimates that 80 percent of the residents evacuated. That leaves more than 11,000 residents in the county that is expected to take a direct hit from Ike's massive storm surge.
Farther up the coast, officials say half the residents of Beaumont stayed put less than two weeks after many evacuated for Hurricane Gustav, only to see the storm miss the city entirely.

[Big Media]

....we're as guilty as those supplying the fuel...simple supply and demand...

Yep. I concur. If people would sit down and shut the f-ck up for 24 hours, they could see that all the supply shortage crap is nonsense.

On 9/11, I freaked out and joined the hordes of people at the big Go Mart at the corner of 60 and 64 in Huntington. I paid fair market price... which at the time was about $1.54.

That's the last time I can remember paying fair market price for a gallon of gas.

In 2004, the price was about 2.39.

In 2006, the price was about 3.09.

In 200ohmygodwhatthefuckisgoingoninIranweshouldcharge$10agallonbecausepeoplearedumbenoughtopayit 8, the price is over 4.00/gal average.

[Ace Purple]

It jumped to $4.17 range where I live, though that was mild compared with how it moved up elsewhere. I'm kicking myself for not filling up at the shady-but-less expensive Mapco Express ($3.79) on the drive home from my parents' house last night.

[Arp2]

Let me help, here.

What you're seeing with the price is not profiteering...it is exactly what needs to happen.

Remember that the primary job of gas retailers is to have gas available. When supply is taken out or future supply is threatened (and it definitely has in the south and southeast with about a sixth of the country's refining capacity taken offline), price must adjust to make the existing and known gas remain available to whomever really wants it over the time of threatened supply. That's what's happened, and it is entirely appropriate....demand must be curtailed until more information is available. Here....take a look at this map and see how the bulk of refined gasoline actually gets delivered to the country....



That big one that moves gasoline to and through the Carolinas, Virginia, and so forth.....



...that's the Colonial Pipeline, which originates in the Houston area and delivers ~100,000,000 gallons of gas each day to the states you see and on up into the DC/Philadelphia/New York areas. It has been completely shut down, and something in the vicinity of that amount (more, really) needs to be pulled out of demand in the US (and mostly from that region). You do that with price.


By the way, I note you guys weren't complaining over the last few weeks, and, strangely, that's when you were getting "gouged."

In my area (some areas lower, many areas higher), retail price is generally in a range of 45-60 cents over the NYMEX RBOB price (the NY Mercantile Exchange price -- wholesale, roughly -- for gasoline). For the last couple of weeks, retail remained in the neighborhood of .80 to $1.00 over RBOB.....that was the time of "profiteering," but y'all didn't notice it because you thought that price was "lower." It's with that "lower" price that you've been getting "screwed," believe it or not.


Once the hurricane is over, the damage is known, repairs are underway, and supply starts flowing out of the region again, gas will continue its slide....as a matter of fact, barring any significant damage to the refineries, gas could very well have a "2" handle on it in a few weeks.....well, maybe not now.......

[AmpedNow]

When supply is taken out or future supply is threatened (and it definitely has in the south and southeast with about a sixth of the country's refining capacity taken offline), price must adjust to make the existing and known gas remain available to whomever really wants it over the time of threatened supply. That's what's happened, and it is entirely appropriate....demand must be curtailed until more information is available.

I understand the market dynamics at play here. But the miner who spends $80-100 per day in fuel just to get to work and back doesn't "really want it". He has no choice but to buy it. So when a necessary commodity's price spikes so fast, it's going to make people complain. It directly affects their lives.

Although the current spike will likely correct itself shortly, this erratic speculation makes me crazy...

[Hoosier Daddy]

We've had hurricanes since the beginning of time.

The crazy and unexplainable price gouging has only taken place since, oh, 2007.

[cgarison]

The speculation factor is not as much at work in this situation as much as the simple rules of supply and demand in economics. Because the supply of refined gasoline is short, but the demand outside of the Ike area unchanged, then prices will go up.

What is funny is that the price of oil/barrel in the special electronic trading session of the NY Mercantile exchage has fallen a $1.50 per barrel since the session opened.

I see $2.75/gallon gasoline in our future!

Speaking of prices near Philly, I gassed up for $3.45/gallon in Bristol, PA yesterday. Most of Philly is around $3.60/gallon while heavily controlled NJ is still under $3.40/gallon.

[Arp2]

We've had hurricanes since the beginning of time.

The crazy and unexplainable price gouging has only taken place since, oh, 2007.

But, again, we've not had India and China being such a significant factor before. We're up on the edge of available supply....little buffer left. Again, more supply is the only answer for the near future.....

[Bob Campbell]

The price gouging law in NC works this way. If you raise your price by greater than 10 cents more than whatever your current profit margin is, you're gouging. i.e. You make a penny a gallon, you can raise that margin to 11 cents but no further. That means stations who raise over a dollar BEFORE re-supply could be prosecuted. I saw one go from 3.57 to 5.35 Friday morning.
Most are still under 4.
Under NC law, you cant' raise the price on the prospect of higher wholesale cost.
What astonishes me is that in the past 6 months no one has shot any of the oil execs. AS pissed off as people are, you'd think there'd be some nut out there who would take out the CEO of Exxon/Mobil or someone like that.

[Jet Black]

I was through the local berg Saturday and noticed that prices in the $3.60 range had risen by Thursday to the $3.80 range, and were so on Saturday morining, cranked up in the all lesser stations (Speedway, Kroger, Gomart) to the $4.10 area by noon - Except for Exxon and Mobil, who stayed steady. I used to be a big Exxon buyer, and after seeing that, I may go back to spending a few more pennies per gallon for Exxon. I think they have superior additives, anyway.

I'm with Arp. The market is the market for a reason. I'm mad about rising prices too, but I can't find anybody evil to blame. I'm burning a century note every week in gas, which sucks, but that's life. I just have to find a way to make more money to cover it. If Walmart wants employees, they will have to raise their pay a little. It's silly to drive an hour for a Walmart job, anyway.

[cgarison]

I am not sure of what to think of the gas prices. I understand the impact of the refineries shutting down, but in Huntington, WV, how much production was shut in because refineries in Houston were in the path of the storm. The Catlettsburg refinery is running just fine and may have its supply of crude disrupted by Gustav, but nothing from Ike should have impacted production.

Personally, I think it is time for a federal price fixing probe against Marathon Oil due to the fact that they were cranking up wholesale prices of gasoline Thursday in preparation for Ike and were proud enough to brag about that fact to CNN. Marathon has several refineries that were unaffected by the storm yet they leveraged this as a reason to hike prices. I call bullshit on this action and it is time that feds step up to the plate and protect the people and the US economy.

[Greg Goodfellow]

Last Wednesday, one part of a local town had gas for $3.89 a gallon. A mile or so away, I filled up at $3.64 per. The next day, everyone had read the memo, and everyone was at $3.89. Now it's $3.99, with a town not far away (New Martinsville) at $4.05.

[Hoosier Daddy]

I don't see India and China having such an overnight impact on the Petroleum market. During Gustav (the "Mother of all Hurricanes", we were told), gas prices stayed the same even though the eye of the storm came right over the Gulf of Mexico. But several weeks later, Ike is provoking $5 a gallon gas price threats. As I've said before, we've had hurricanes since the beginning of time, and the last couple of years mark the only time in history when gas prices swung all over the scale like they have. I think there's more than 'the free market in play, making necessary adjustments' here.

[AmpedNow]

Here's some erratic speculation...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

Oil spikes $25 a barrel on anxiety over US bailout
Sep 22 02:47 PM US/Eastern

NEW YORK (AP) - Oil prices spiked more than $25 a barrel Monday—the biggest one-day price jump ever—as anxiety over the government's $700 billion bailout plan, a weak dollar and an expiring crude contract ignited a dramatic rally.

Light, sweet crude for October delivery jumped as much as $25.45 to $130 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange before falling back to settle at $120.92, up $16.37. The contract expired at the end of the day, adding to the volatility as traders rushed to cover positions; the October price began accelerating sharply in the last hour of regular trading, a common occurrence when a contract is about to go off the board.

Shoot them all.

[Arp2]

Here's some erratic speculation...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

Oil spikes $25 a barrel on anxiety over US bailout
Sep 22 02:47 PM US/Eastern

NEW YORK (AP) - Oil prices spiked more than $25 a barrel Monday—the biggest one-day price jump ever—as anxiety over the government's $700 billion bailout plan, a weak dollar and an expiring crude contract ignited a dramatic rally.

Light, sweet crude for October delivery jumped as much as $25.45 to $130 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange before falling back to settle at $120.92, up $16.37. The contract expired at the end of the day, adding to the volatility as traders rushed to cover positions; the October price began accelerating sharply in the last hour of regular trading, a common occurrence when a contract is about to go off the board.

Shoot them all.

But that was them getting shot!

It was the last day of October contract trading...after the close, it was time to be making or taking delivery of actual, physical oil. The guys just playing with paper obviously had no desire to get involved doing that and were trying to get out of the speculation that never came through; the people in the right position made them pay. Actual volume was very low....in other words, real trading had moved on to the November contracts, only the speculators were having to pay that price, and no actual customer was harmed during the course of that trading. But the media morons -- especially in an election year -- love to sensationalize everything up and induce fear and panic.....

Today, current contract (November) trading had oil at about $107 this morning.....and that was down from yesterday's $108-109........