The battle over Coal River Mountain

[Lester]

The battle over Coal River Mountain
RALIEGH COUNTY, West Virginia (CNN) -- Lorelei Scarboro loves to talk about the wild turkeys and bears living on West Virginia's Coal River Mountain.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/07/coal.r ... pstoryview

[Jet Black]

That's terrible. One place where I think GB43 made a big mistake was easing the restrictions on MTM. I'm sure he meant well, but it's just too damaging. It's all bullshit, though. There's no way to get any relief from the only people who could give it, the super-entreched coal-bought Legislators in Chaleston. You all know I'm to the right of John Birch, but I tell you, if I could have my way, I would revert all sub-surface rights back to the current surface owners without any compensation whatsoever to either the surface or sub-surface owners; permanantly outlaw the seperation of sub-surface from surface rights, and put very tight time limitations on sub-surface leases made by property owners. Of course, MTM and Longwall WMD would be illegal, permanently, on the premise that the permenant, irreversable damage to property was a de facto and unmeasureable drag on the property value of surrounding property, including nearby communities. Don't hold your breath, though, waiting for anybody in the state government to do anything more than whatever it takes to keep their own pockets lined.

[fearpeddler]

I think because of operations like MTM that coal compainies should be carrying a larger tax burden in this state.. and if any companies operation has larger than expected adverse reaction to the environment and surrounding communitites it would cause said tax to rise..

[Dave Allen]

Think about those statements, guys, the next time you turn your lights on or fire up your computers.

[AmpedNow]

Think about those statements, guys, the next time you turn your lights on or fire up your computers.

True, but I still think there are other ways of doing this without this much environmental impact.

Okay, so you plant trees and bushes and the deer and the little birdies come back and sing again. The fact is that mountain will still be smaller than it had to be 100,000 years from now, even factoring in natural geological erosion.

At my gut level, I have a problem with that.

MTR is one of those things that future generations 100 years from now will look back at and say "WTF were they thinking?!"

[cgarison]

Think about those statements, guys, the next time you turn your lights on or fire up your computers.

Amen, Brother! Amen!

True, but I still think there are other ways of doing this without this much environmental impact.

Partially correct. Yes, it is possible to auger and highwall out coal, but by the time you add the prep fees to make the coal burnable to mining costs to hog this fossil fuel from the Earth in this manner, you have just increased costs to the point where this coal is not economically viable to mine.

[Jet Black]

Partially correct. Yes, it is possible to auger and highwall out coal, but by the time you add the prep fees to make the coal burnable to mining costs to hog this fossil fuel from the Earth in this manner, you have just increased costs to the point where this coal is not economically viable to mine.

Really? Too bad. The damage is not worth the profit. By the way, that coal is mainly firing up Chinese computers, not American ones.

I'm not against coal mining, I'm against longwalling becasue it causes too much damage to people who have no stake in it, irregardless of the compensation they receive. I'm against MTM for the same reason. It destroys communities, it destroys families, it destroys ways of life that it ought not. Too much is demanded of those that don't have a stake, to ensure the profit those very few that do.

[Dave Allen]

What destroys families in mining communities is a lack a work due to protesters and others who don't even live here.

[fearpeddler]

this is the part of the conversation where its begins resembling a tiptoe through a minefield....

[genlock]

The environmentalists did not bitch when tops of mountains were cut of for the shopping centers in Charleston.
They just hate coal and anybody associated with it.

[Jet Black]

What destroys families in mining communities is a lack a work due to protesters and others who don't even live here.

Bullshit. Without the longwall, the mines would have to employ MORE miners, not less. And don't give me that long wall stuff, they are longwalling under my community right now, and I've seen it change the whole community.

I'm pretty much for the landowner can do whatever he wants with his land, even if it's the coal mine. But MTM presumes on the rights of others. Walmart can't come in a bulldoze my farm and put in a Walmart for as long as it's profitable, then tear down the Walmart and plant grass an call it rectified. Nor does Walmart make noise day and night, pollute the streams (small fine paid - no problem), clog and destroy the roads, spread dirt over everything for miles, etc, etc. And don't you dare call me an enviromentalist - that's a code-word for leftist-socialist moron, to me. Green is the new Socialism. But we have laws for a reason, and here's a case where a law should prevail - you can't conduct business on very shakey mineral right claims if you end up damaging the community. MTM and longwalling damage the community.

[Dave Allen]

Sorry, I thought I knew something about the mining industry. Guess I was wrong.

[Jet Black]

Don't mention it.

[cgarison]

Partially correct. Yes, it is possible to auger and highwall out coal, but by the time you add the prep fees to make the coal burnable to mining costs to hog this fossil fuel from the Earth in this manner, you have just increased costs to the point where this coal is not economically viable to mine.

Really? Too bad. The damage is not worth the profit. By the way, that coal is mainly firing up Chinese computers, not American ones.

I'm not against coal mining, I'm against longwalling becasue it causes too much damage to people who have no stake in it, irregardless of the compensation they receive. I'm against MTM for the same reason. It destroys communities, it destroys families, it destroys ways of life that it ought not. Too much is demanded of those that don't have a stake, to ensure the profit those very few that do.

Whoa! I said highwall which is considerably different than longwall. Highwall benches used to mine coal are very useful for the development of WV. I thing the Logan Wal-Mart would not be where it is located if it were not for opportunity to hog coal out of the hill using high wall miners. Plus it is much, much safer than using drift portals and sending miners into a dangerous mine.

And I am not opposed to MTR mining. In fact, I stood and protested the protestors from 1998-2004 as I worked in an industries directly related to the health of coal mining in WV and KY.

As far as the use of the longwall WMD, I think that is the worst invention ever in the world of coal. Not only is it dangerous for the people who live above the mine it is terribly dangerous for those in the mine. The good news for southern WV and eastern, KY is very few longwall worthy low sulfur virgin seams exist to make the use cost effective. My heart felt condolences to those in Consol country of southwestern PA and northern WV.

[genlock]

MTR sites are the best place to re-locate people who live below in the flood plain and go back there after each flood.

Like Blackbottom, Cherry Tree and Mount Gay.

[Jet Black]

I wasn't confusing high and long, I was just talking about two things at once.

I have a friend who's an engineer at a mine in PA, who was standing with a mechanic who was working on the longwall conveyor, when a belt jerked or some-such, and ripped the guy's arm off. My engineer friend said this is a very sickening thing to experience. No doubt.

I can't say I'm 100% right on MTM, but I just imagine how sick I would be if they started to MTM near me. It would ruin all I've built up in my lifetime, my little peaceful place out in the woods. Already I can hear the vent fans two ridges away, droning on day and night. I'm sweating the day when Consol will decide the vein runs under me after all, and I'll pretty much lose my house like many of my neighbors, and Consol roads and right of ways and vents will destroy my little backwoods, like I've seen it destroy little scret places we used to enjoy around here. Same way Chesepeake, with their drilling rigs and right-of-ways popping up everywhere. I live on a Columbia Gas storage feild, and Consol is threatening that. What a disaster for people here to lose the luxury of being on Columbia's storage field, not to mention loss of employemnt. Consol doesn't care. Pay the politicians, steamroll the surface owners, spend $12 to make $13, leeve a crooked, waterless mess behind.

[Dave Allen]

Sounds like a plan to me.

[Jet Black]

Said like a true whatever you are.

[Dave Allen]

Guy who likes to eat?

[cgarison]

Same way Chesepeake, with their drilling rigs and right-of-ways popping up everywhere. I live on a Columbia Gas storage feild, and Consol is threatening that. What a disaster for people here to lose the luxury of being on Columbia's storage field, not to mention loss of employemnt. Consol doesn't care. Pay the politicians, steamroll the surface owners, spend $12 to make $13, leeve a crooked, waterless mess behind.

Funny that you mention this because you would not believe the number of engineers that I know that worked for Columbia Gas (CNR & TCO) back in the day and then moved on to Delaware Valley petroleum refiners in the last 10 years that are going back to southwestern PA or northern WV to participate in the newly revitalized natty gas industry. It only took 9 years for the bad effects of the former Enron execs that took over Columbia Gas after the scuttled the company and sold the parts to NiSource and Chesapeake.

I am glad I never got mixed up with those Enron cliques as they moved from natty gas and into the coal industry and tried the same shitty tactics in 2000. Even better Enron imploded in 2001 and wiped out these asshole's street credibility as being the "know all/be all" of the energy industry. I see bright times coming back to Appalachia. It is just going to take 5-10 more years for the people to start coming back home.