Stocks down 400

[Jet Black]

Did it ever occur to you, Bob, that Obama running around making noise about capital gains increases and windfall profits taxes is not helping the confidence of the market?

[cgarison]

Did it ever occur to you, Bob, that Obama running around making noise about capital gains increases and windfall profits taxes is not helping the confidence of the market?

Amen.

[Bob Campbell]

had he actually said such things, it wouldn't bother me, because neither has ever been shown to have any detrimental effect on the economy.

did it ever occur to you that a member of the Keating 5, who has repeatedly come out against regulation, and said that he's not really up on the economy thing, might cause a little consternation?

[Lester]

Or that Obama's VP choice has no clue what a VP does?

(We can keep this going.)

[Jet Black]

Did you dig BC's last post? Keep going? Why bother? If more tax is good, and Obama didn't say that anyhow (note to self: get ears checked,) arguing is rather pointless.

[Bob Campbell]

Actually you guys are right. The capital gains tax has sure ruined our economy for the last 20 years. And windfall profit taxes have nearly destroyed the oil corporations.
Please.

You don't even want to go to VP rips do you? Really?

Ooops gotta go. President Hoover is speaking about the economy again.

[Lester]

Hoover? I could have swore Biden said it was Roosevelt.

[Arp2]

Did it ever occur to you, Bob, that Obama running around making noise about capital gains increases and windfall profits taxes is not helping the confidence of the market?

You are exactly correct....with cries for nationalization of everything for the sake of "fairness" getting louder and the officially-endorsed candidate of like-minded Hugo Chavez in the lead, people with money are getting the bulk of it -- and, in some cases, themselves -- out of the country and "hiding" it as fast as they possibly can. When -- or if -- they get back in this market, it'll be in a tentative manner via some nebulous new "investment firm" or "fund" from somewhere else and only with money that they'll be willing to lose.

And windfall profit taxes have nearly destroyed the oil corporations.
Please.

They haven't happened, so their effects are not yet known.

However, the effect of the threat is clear -- just look at any oil company's chart. Go ahead...pick whichever one you want. Open a new tab and go do it.

One, oil companies trade at a multiple lower than almost any other sector for no reason other than the various political threats and limitations they face. Two, as we have recently seen, no amount of profit or investment toward the future will make the company's value go up due to number one.

As I've said before, if any liberal really believes the absurd assigned talking points regarding the chosen populism hate target of the day, that liberal should be fully-invested in that target.

Showing his massive ignorance, one lib here (perhaps even in this post) said something to the effect of "can't do that on moral grounds." Well, that ignorant lib and others should know that, unless you're buying directly from the company during a public offering, money invested does not go to the company; stocks, except from a public offering, are merely pieces of paper you're betting will be worth more or less to some other guy in the future...really not much different from paintings, autographs, or comic books, as silly as that sounds.

[Arp2]

Ooops gotta go. President Hoover is speaking about the economy again.

Let's take a look at some positions of a presidential candidate.....

-- Ran as a "progressive" advocate of "change"
-- Advocated ending oil retrieval on government lands
-- All but mandated volunteerism by the American populace
-- Denounced laissez-faire thinking
-- Pushed increased regulation as the savior of the average citizen
-- Stated that public-private partnerships were the way forward
-- Wanted universal health care...for the children, at the very least....
-- Increased tariffs....you know, the primary means of "protectionism" to help keep Uhmuricun jawbs....
-- Promised tax cuts for low-income Americans (but never did it)
-- Promised raised taxes on "wealthy" Americans (did that)
-- Upped the taxes on businesses in the face of a slowing economy
-- Saw federal building and big infrastructure projects as the way to put more Americans to work
-- Wanted to keep the government out of unions' efforts, no matter how intimidating and illegal they became
-- Told Americans he would withdraw troops from hotspots where freedom was on shaky ground
-- Touted the benefits of reduced military spending and advocated arms reductions for the whole world

Now, was that presidential candidate...

a) Herbert Hoover?
b) Barack Obama?
c) Bill Clinton?
d) all of the above?


ANSWER: (don't look if you want to research and learn it yourself!)

d) all of the above


Not a single of those positions refers to George W Bush or John McCain....and, of course, all of those positions led to The Great Depression. Uncanny and amazing, isn't it??


But, with two or three full generations now clueless about history and economics, I suppose you can keep going with your Goebbels "big lie" tactics.....

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic, and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of is powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and, thus, by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." -- Former German National Socialist Workers Party Minister of Propaganda Josef Goebbels, emphasis added.

I just counteracted the big lie and gave you the truth....I guess that makes me the enemy of the state!

[cgarison]

Did it ever occur to you, Bob, that Obama running around making noise about capital gains increases and windfall profits taxes is not helping the confidence of the market?

You are exactly correct....with cries for nationalization of everything for the sake of "fairness" getting louder and the officially-endorsed candidate of like-minded Hugo Chavez in the lead, people with money are getting the bulk of it -- and, in some cases, themselves -- out of the country and "hiding" it as fast as they possibly can. When -- or if -- they get back in this market, it'll be in a tentative manner via some nebulous new "investment firm" or "fund" from somewhere else and only with money that they'll be willing to lose.

All I see happening now is Wall Street accepting the fact that McCain has lost the election and building into stocks the price they will be in the Obama era by selling the hell out of the markets. The void left by AIG's failure was adequately filled as to prevent this kind of Wall Street sell off.

Remember ever Tuesday in the winter/spring when Obama won in the primaries equated to a down week in financials. Clinton Victories brought better weeks in the financials. And how did investors protect themselves in the decrease stock market? They hedged in commodities like oil. May and June were fun because I could literally watch the flow of money out of stocks and into oil and then from oil back to stocks.

Now the only unknown that is left to negatively impact the markets is the fallout from Citi's collapse due to not being able to acquire the Wachovia assets to shore up their balance sheet. Citibank is in deep crap now that they do not have a bailout deal wrapped in the guise of an acquisition to not scare customers.

[cgarison]

Ooops gotta go. President Hoover is speaking about the economy again.

Let's take a look at some positions of a presidential candidate.....

-- Ran as a "progressive" advocate of "change"
-- Advocated ending oil retrieval on government lands
-- All but mandated volunteerism by the American populace
-- Denounced laissez-faire thinking
-- Pushed increased regulation as the savior of the average citizen
-- Stated that public-private partnerships were the way forward
-- Wanted universal health care...for the children, at the very least....
-- Increased tariffs....you know, the primary means of "protectionism" to help keep Uhmuricun jawbs....
-- Promised tax cuts for low-income Americans (but never did it)
-- Promised raised taxes on "wealthy" Americans (did that)
-- Upped the taxes on businesses in the face of a slowing economy
-- Saw federal building and big infrastructure projects as the way to put more Americans to work
-- Wanted to keep the government out of unions' efforts, no matter how intimidating and illegal they became
-- Told Americans he would withdraw troops from hotspots where freedom was on shaky ground
-- Touted the benefits of reduced military spending and advocated arms reductions for the whole world

Now, was that presidential candidate...

a) Herbert Hoover?
b) Barack Obama?
c) Bill Clinton?
d) all of the above?


ANSWER: (don't look if you want to research and learn it yourself!)

d) all of the above

You forgot JFK. Of course that idiot "top cop" brother Bobby screwed the union part which led to that administration's demise.

[genlock]

Jeepy picked it.
DOW hit 8000 twice already.
Volitle part of the day just ahead.

At what point to those guys start jumping out of windows on Wall Street?

[Jet Black]

Arpy, Jeepy, Lester: I love you guys. Sniff, sniff. (In a manly way, of course.)

[Arp2]

A 1000 point trading range today!

About 12%!


On FBN, Liz Claman's green dress is being turned red or green depending on what's happening!

[AmpedNow]

Blame Obama... He isn't even in office yet, nor is he guaranteed to win. Yet the finger pointing has already started...

Obama has also said that many of his proposals are subject to modification and being put on hold while the economy sorts out.

As for taxes, I'm more concerned with all our money being worth far less than it was eight years ago than a couple percent tax increase. How is rapid inflation any different from a tax increase for the average Joe? All he knows is that a loaf of bread costs more now than it did a year ago. Think about eight years ago.

And we all know how well average wages keep up with the rate of inflation...

I will agree with capital gains, though. I've had to deal with that myself... Although there is a three year limitation on real estate.

[AmpedNow]

Veering back on topic here...

Anybody remember this incredibly prophetic rant in August of last year by Jim Cramer?



He turned out to be spot on, unfortunately.


Here he was on the Today show on Monday, 10/6, telling everyone who plans to sell withing the next five years to bolt now.




Now, here he was yesterday, 10/10, talking about the similarities and differences between now and 1987, and 1929. He also responds to Bill O'Reilly, who accused him of causing the market to tank by making those comments.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27118341


Interesting segment...

What do you all think of his views?

[Hoosier Daddy]

It's never a Republican's fault. Ever.

Just ask one.

[Lester]

Even though the paper trail leads to the Democrats door.

Hell, even Bill Clinton tried to fix some of it AND WAS SHOT DOWN BY BARNEY FRANKS! (But him banging a FM executive had NOTHING to do with it.)

Someone told me (didn't verify though) that Jim Cramer actually recommended some sound investments that weren't just before the drop. Anyone else remember this?

[cgarison]

Someone told me (didn't verify though) that Jim Cramer actually recommended some sound investments that weren't just before the drop. Anyone else remember this?

I cannot remember any specifics, but he was issuing "mea culpas" almost daily on his show from late August through Lehman/AIG.

The part that is sad is that everything that we have seen in corporate losses in the last year have been due to the mark to market rules put in place back in 1994. As of today, those rules are off the books. So Monday morning it is a new world and the market has been given clearance from the tower to take off, but I think it will only creep back up in the US. The good news is this decline in stocks will resonate in China the way 1987 fall resonated in Japan which has resulted in a perpetual recession ever since.

So no one here is going to ask, "Why didn't SOX stop this from happening?"

[genlock]

Jeepy, I hate to ask, but "Mark to Market rules"?
Could you explain that in small words, typing slowly, so that I may understand?