Art or Crap? You decide.

[genlock]

Open market, the way all prices are set.

[CoolBreeze]

But, should one put a price tag on art? If yes, then how should that price determined?

Most recycling places would give you 30 cents a pound for it. There's your price.

[Jet Black]

But, should one put a price tag on art? If yes, then how should that price determined?

Strictly a judgement call. Even though I think it's way overkill at $0.9M, I can't say that's too much for good art. I just think they should have picked somebody who could do it better? Who did this piece anyway? Tell me it's not designed by that architect from Tamarac.

[CoolBreeze]

Who did this piece anyway? Tell me it's not designed by that architect from Tamarac.

Albert Paley

http://www.albertpaley.com/site_specific.asp

[AmpedNow]

I'm going to glue a rock to the side of a plastic pop bottle... Wonder what that would be worth?

[Lester]

But, should one put a price tag on art? If yes, then how should that price determined?

Strictly a judgement call. Even though I think it's way overkill at $0.9M, I can't say that's too much for good art. I just think they should have picked somebody who could do it better? Who did this piece anyway? Tell me it's not designed by that architect from Tamarac.

Art is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it... that's the breakdown here. If a PRIVATE CITIZEN wants to fork over .9mil of his hard earned money for a piece o' crap... so be it (our owner does it all the time... and there is a piece of art here we call "Turd in a Box"). However, a single person (or small handful of people) has apparently decided that .9 mil in money NOT from their pocket should go towards a piece of crap to sit in front of the Clay Center.

[Scott Reppert]

"I see two elephants making love to a men's glee club"...

Ummm ... uh ... never mind.

Woody Allen. "Take The Money And Run". One of the funniest movies EVER...

[Bob Campbell]

The real question is why you guys fear and dislike anything that doesn't fit your definition of art. It didn't cost any of you a dime and yet you're all worked up over it. If it bothers you that much, don't look at it. Of course, if it bothers you that much, that may just prove what a powerful piece of art it is.

[CoolBreeze]

Our money DID go into building the Clay Center. It would have been nice to have had something decent in front of our hard earned money.

But here's the problem: Too many times here in WV, a person or group will choose an artist because they're FAMOUS.... and not because they're GOOD. Such is the case here. This artist is famous for his "artwork" all over the U.S. Places where anything and everything goes, especially if it's different. We try too often to show the world our "good taste" by emulating others in the big cities. Problem is, most of us are beans & cornbread, not Caviar. We know art when we see it, and we know junk too. We learned this by looking over any hillside to see what people tossed over it. In the big cities, this "art" wouldn't look out of place, but here.... please.

[jag]

The real question is why you guys fear and dislike anything that doesn't fit your definition of art.

Excellent point, Bob. Let's take it another step or so.

Could it be that this sculpture is just so different than what we are accustomed to seeing that the unfamiliarity of it is that proves so compromising? Surely, we've all at some time heard a new tune with which we weren't necessarily taken and then later came to be a bit more fond of. Or, maybe we saw a glimpse of a vehicle which seemed of questionable aesthetics initially, but later seemed to be more appealing.

Let me clarify that I'm not defending this fellow's art. I know far too little about it, and besides, he doesn't need me to speak in his defense. What I am suggesting is that perhaps we might wish to give ourselves time to become more comfortable with an idea that is new to us before we dismiss it. After all, the music of J.S. Bach wasn't always considered to be as masterful as it is, today.

[Bob Campbell]

I have no problem with anyone disliking any piece of art. But I just don't think anybody on here is qualified to define art. I know, "I don't know art, but I know what I like" is a perfectly respectable opinion. But the vitriol and apparent anger over this work is, well, geez, don't you guys have anything important to bitch about?
I don't know if I like this piece or not. It's too hard to tell from a photo. I do know that the Clay Center is a wonderful venue for shows and I'm sure that at some time they've had shows that appeal to a wide variety of tastes. I'm not big into bluegrass or country, but I don't get pissed off if they appear somewhere. I find it hard to describe exactly what I like in art works of the sculpture and painting kind, I just try to judge each one individually.
But I do know as far as my own personal art goes (if you'll allow to me call being a radio loudmouth "art"), I'm just pleased as punch to piss people off. That's one way I know it's working. And by that standard, at least to the audience that frequents this board, the piece at the Clay Center must be a masterwork.

[Jet Black]

One, lighten up, Bob. We're just having a discussion on the value of a certain piece of public art.

Two, the "not qualified" argument is bullshit. If I have to be indoctinated into the latest thinking of the art cogniscenti to enjoy a piece of art, especially a piece of public art, then isn't that art useless? Nobody is more qualified than me to enjoy art; if it moves me, it's good, if it doesn't move me, then it's not for me. The pic posted above shows a piece of art that doesn't move me. Craft is not the same thing as art. Art transcends craft. You can't plan that. Either it does or not. This strikes me as a $900,000 "miss."

[genlock]

As long as the guy who wrote the check is happy with it, so be it.
After he dies and his heirs have no more money (or will to donate it), it might go away.
Few will care as someone else with money will commission more "art".

[Bob Campbell]

I was just bothered by people saying it's not art. It may not be art that you or I like, but that doesn't keep it from being art.

[Lester]

And that, Bob, is where the ridiculousness of art comes in. ANYONE can declare something art, then declare that NO ONE is fit to disprove it as such.

Followed shortly thereafter by an NEA grant.

[CoolBreeze]

I was just bothered by people saying it's not art. It may not be art that you or I like, but that doesn't keep it from being art.

"Back in 1988, Andres Serrano submerged a crucifix in a vat of his urine, photographed the result and called it “art.”

[Hoosier Daddy]

The picture itself is pretty ... until you find out how it was made.

[AmpedNow]

But here's the problem: Too many times here in WV, a person or group will choose an artist because they're FAMOUS.... and not because they're GOOD. Such is the case here. This artist is famous for his "artwork" all over the U.S. Places where anything and everything goes, especially if it's different. We try too often to show the world our "good taste" by emulating others in the big cities. Problem is, most of us are beans & cornbread, not Caviar. We know art when we see it, and we know junk too. We learned this by looking over any hillside to see what people tossed over it. In the big cities, this "art" wouldn't look out of place, but here.... please.

There's no question that this particular piece of art would look more "natural" in Seattle or NYC, but suggesting that West Virginians in general can't "get their minds around" art like this may be a little patronizing.

People here are more used to practical art of actual things and places, more than, say, an abstract array of colors of nothing, or a shapeless structure, which is what we have here. Finding meaning in the abstract is not an easy task for everyone.

I get tired of this assumption that West Virginians are pretty much a separate "breed" of people; simple, culturally isolated, unable and unwilling to enjoy things from the "outside" world. At least, I'd like to think that it's only an assumption...

As for the piece itself, I'm just goofing on how subjective this kind of art is in general... I never said I didn't like it. But, I would be lying if I said I didn't do a double-take that it was being put in front of the Clay Center.

[CoolBreeze]

I personally LOVE good abstract art. I travel all over Europe and see beautiful examples of abstract statues and other forms everywhere. But I also know random pieces of steel cobbled together when I see it.

[fearpeddler]

I know ART when I see it as well, and this was about as artistic as "2 chicks 1 cup".....