Police Tap Sprint Customers' GPS Data 8,000,000+ Times

[Bob Campbell]

All fun and games, but then we'd BE them wouldn't we? I always thought we were supposed to be better than that. That's what so many of our men and women are dying for isn't it? Well, I guess it could have been worse. You could have written that today.

That's pretty much what we did with Saddam's sons, leaving their corpses on public view in an air conditioned tent for a week.

You may find this hard to believe, but they don't give two rips about our infidel court system. Since Allah is not in our courts, they're meaningless to them.

They won't respect us, no matter how many times Obama runs off to Cairo begging them to. The next best thing is fear.

When Al-Qaeda underlings see their field commander swinging by a noose on TV, and they know that they are next if our military finds them, let them all shit their garbs.

Taking the ones we captured to court won't keep the others still out there on the run like the rats they are in that mountain cave maze.

Send over some more daisy cutters. Drop them on their heads as they're running.

In case you forgot, Saddams' sons were killed in firefights
It doesn't matter whether they care about our court system or not. It matters whether WE care about it.
Taking the ones to court, in public, and letting the world see that they get a fair trial, and letting the world see what scum they are, will actually get the respect of many in that world, and help inspire those in that world who desire freedom to know that our system is strong, it works, and it can work for them too.
Make them famous, let the world see them as they are. Let the world see us as we are. I think we'll look pretty good compared to them. If we don't, then that's on us.

[Lester]

We have a military court system, it's called a tribunal. It has lawyers, prosecution, defense... it works.

[Bob Campbell]

I have no problem with that either. Televise it, like Nuremberg (well, they filmed that and showed it to the public). Do it all where we can see it. Let both sides have their say.
Though I prefer civilian courts because so many have complained that the terrorists are NOT military and thus don't deserve a military court.
And of course so many have complained that they don't deserve any rights under our constitution because they're not citizens, even though the rights of our constitution are guaranteed for all, citizens or not.

[genlock]

No, they are not.

[Jet Black]

No, they are not.

Genlock, correct again.

[Hoosier Daddy]

No they are not ... what? which one?

[genlock]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. ”


Those furriners are not "we the people".

[Hoosier Daddy]

Thanks. I just didn't understand who or what you were referring to.

[Bob Campbell]

Actually, and this has been affirmed by countless court decisions, our constitutional rights apply to all who are within our borders or under our power.
You will notice that the word "citizen" does not appear in our Constitution.
This was a very troublesome point early in our nation's history concerning dealings with women and slaves, both of whom fell into a sort of citizenship netherworld, as neither had voting rights and one was regarded as outright property. The Dred Scott decision allowed for blacks to be counted as 3/5 of a person when tallying population in the mid 1800's and eventually of course the Civil War resulted in the freeing of the slaves. Women were granted the right to vote later.
Constitutional rights do not depend on citizenship. Were that so you could walk up to any foreign tourist, beat them, steal their wallet and walk off, secure in the fact they had no right of redress in a court of law.
Another aspect of this fact of constitutions of democratic nations is the recent conviction of American Amanda Knox for murder in Italy. Amanda, not an Italian citizen, was granted all the rights of any Italian citizen in court.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Mr. Campbell is correct.

[Bob Campbell]

Thank you.

These rights were also the chief reason W built the Gulag at Guantanamo. He hoped it would give him some legal leeway to avoid Constitutional rights for the terrorists held captive there, thus allowing for the torture of prisoners.Even though he did get his AG to sign off on it, he could never get any actual court to agree.
The thing about our Constitution, and our way of life, is that by living up to its, and our, principles even when it's difficult, we affirm that our way is better. The measure of our greatness as a nation is how we carry ourselves in difficult times, how we live up to the principles under which we were founded. Every time we ignore these principles in the name of expedience or vengeance, we cheapen ourselves and all that we stand for. Sometimes it's hard to be us. But that's what makes us a great nation, a nation worth preserving.

[genlock]

I don't think the constitution allows us to assign rights to enemies of the country.
Or any non-citizens for that matter.
Albert Speer, Krupp, Franck, Funk, Fritsche, Frick, Neurath, VonPapen, Sauckel, Schacht, Von Schickel, Seyss-Inquart and Streicher were all civilians.
They commuted some of the worst war crimes ever. We did not bring them to New York and pay high powered lawyers to defend them.
They were tried by a military court. As war criminals. Which they were found guilty of their crimes and sentenced by the military court.
The entire reason for the move of the trial to New York is to showcase radical lawyers. And give them a fat paycheck.

Remember, If their fat liberal Obama lawyers find a "loophole" and get them off,
they will have to stay in the United States as no other would accept them
or their crimes in other countries would be death penalth crimes and our
screwed up legal system will not let us send them there. They would stay
here protected and supported by our federal government.

[genlock]

"Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States."

Apparently citizen is mentioned here. Considering who is President, I can understand Mr Campbell's confusion.

[The People's DJ]

All this lawyer shit could have been avoided with two words:

NO Quarters!

Hopefully everyone understands those two words.

[genlock]

Correct term is No Quarter. Like at the Alamo.

Quarters refers to a place soldiers live.

[Lester]

the Gulag at Guantanamo

Once again proving that you really don't know what you're talking about... powered by the thinking that *EVERYTHING* America does is wrong.

[Bob Campbell]

the Gulag at Guantanamo

Once again proving that you really don't know what you're talking about... powered by the thinking that *EVERYTHING* America does is wrong.

No, powered by the realisation that not EVERYTHING we do is right. We do things right, we do things wrong. Those who believe either end of that spectrum are messed up. Gee Lester, do you really think the 3 prisoners who supposedly committed suicide at Guantanamo really did all stuff rags so deeply down their throats they had to be surgically removed, tie their own hands and feet, and THEN hang themselves?

The word citizen does appear in the Constitution with respect to eligibility for office, not for who is covered under our rights and protections. Again, EVERYBODY here or under our power is protected by our Constitution. That's a fact proved time and time again over 2 centuries of American history.

The Nazi war criminals, who of course, committed, not commuted crimes, were tried by an international consortium of countries who had fought against the Nazis. And the civilians were of course working for the Nazis.

It's so ironic that those of you on here who claim to be so pro-US so hate all the institutions you claim to defend. I believe our system is strong enough to withstand public civilian trials. If we can't convict the terrorists, that's our fault. In many ways, it may be even more difficult to convict them in a military tribunal. In a military court you'll have virtually no chance of getting someone on a jury who will make decisions based on emotions and cravings (no matter how deserved) for revenge. The men and women making the decisions on guilt or innocence on a military tribunal will be highly qualified, experienced, military officers who will be much less likely to be swayed by emotion and much more able to make difficult decisions based on the evidence presented, even if it is a decision to set free someone we would describe as a terrorist.
The Feds have a pretty good record convicting terrorists in civilian court. Timothy McVeigh and the first World Trade Center bombers were all convicted in Federal civilian court. The Unabomber was convicted in Federal court (pleaded guilty actually to avoid the death penalty).

With respect to civilian trials of terrorists I'll quote W, "Bring it on".

[Lester]

the Gulag at Guantanamo

Gee Lester, do you really think the 3 prisoners who supposedly committed suicide at Guantanamo really did all stuff rags so deeply down their throats they had to be surgically removed, tie their own hands and feet, and THEN hang themselves?[/quote]
Not sure how to address this one... maybe file it away with W's Coke, and Vince's death certificate, or do I flat out address it with "You said GULAG, but you bring me *ONLY* 3 suspicious death? A "Gulag" is institutionalized in nature, they must really suck if 3 was the best they could do.

The word citizen does appear in the Constitution with respect to eligibility for office, not for who is covered under our rights and protections. Again, EVERYBODY here or under our power is protected by our Constitution. That's a fact proved time and time again over 2 centuries of American history.

They're only here because we transported them here. Military tribunal's do not have to occur on U.S soil. I call bullshit on your assertion that it applies to non-U.S. citizens, but that's fine. If it DOES apply to non-U.S. citizens then you really shouldn't have a problem with our liberation of Iraq, since their government was failing to provide them the same rights as our constitution. Hell, Bob, let's liberate the WORLD!

The Feds have a pretty good record convicting terrorists in civilian court. Timothy McVeigh and the first World Trade Center bombers were all convicted in Federal civilian court. The Unabomber was convicted in Federal court (pleaded guilty actually to avoid the death penalty).

You know why? There was no threat of throwing out any of their testimony over a lack of Miranda rights advisement, because they weren't arrest IN A COMBAT ZONE. *ALL* of the evidentiary process was handled on U.S. soil from beginning to end. KSM was rolled up in a MILITARY operation on foreign soil.

No, I don't assume everything the U.S. does is right... but you can go read your own posts to see what contempt you have for our government (except the ones that hand you free stuff).

[Bob Campbell]

Bob Campbell wrote:
the Gulag at GuantanamoGee Lester, do you really think the 3 prisoners who supposedly committed suicide at Guantanamo really did all stuff rags so deeply down their throats they had to be surgically removed, tie their own hands and feet, and THEN hang themselves?[/quote]
Not sure how to address this one... maybe file it away with W's Coke, and Vince's death certificate, or do I flat out address it with "You said GULAG, but you bring me *ONLY* 3 suspicious death? A "Gulag" is institutionalized in nature, they must really suck if 3 was the best they could do.

Those are actually just the 3 most recently in the news because of the controversy over the alleged coverup involving their deaths. You can also toss in the torturing of prisoners. I know you don't consider waterboarding torture, which is funny since the military in which you served does. But the 180 some times KSM was waterboarded is strictly gulag stuff. And the 3 deaths mentioned above are not the only 3 to occur at Guantanamo.
Guantanamo was established in an attempt to circumvent the constitution of the US so prisoners could be held indefinitely without being charged and interrogated, to use one of Dick Cheney's words, "agressively".
You can call bullshit on whether our constitution applies to non-citizens on our soil or under our power but that's exactly the way we've treated people for our entire history. Another example is illegal immigrants who, even when they are deported, get to face a judge. Due process is one of the principles upon which our nation was founded.
Go ask a lawyer or a judge, somebody in the law you trust. There has to be one somewhere. Ask them if a non-citizen committing a crime in the US gets the same rights to trial, etc. as a citizen. Dont' take my word for it. Ask the Wake County DA. The Raleigh Chief of Police. A defense attorney. Of course, perhaps you now repudiate the entire US legal system. I know, you can't trust any of them right? They'd lie to protect those darn terrorists.

[Lester]

So enemy combatants should face the civilian court system... that's what you're saying, right?