Gas

[Dr. Whiplash]

Just in case you aren't quite scared/paranoid enough, check into the theory of "peak oil." It's been theorized for 25-30 years that we would some day reach a point where (a.) the end of easily accessed petroleum supplies meets (b.) emerging markets such as China and India. If we've reached that point we are pretty much screwed, lifestyle-wise. Mad Max, here we come, babies.

Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

[AmpedNow]

Don't. Remember, someone is making "record profits" during all this.

Shell makes $4 million profit per minute.

In the time it took to write this, they will have made more money than most of us will see in a lifetime.

No, I'm not bitter or anything...

t's been theorized for 25-30 years that we would some day reach a point where (a.) the end of easily accessed petroleum supplies meets (b.) emerging markets such as China and India. If we've reached that point we are pretty much screwed, lifestyle-wise.

I have heard this before...

Peak oil has to arrive some time in the future, but I don't think we are there quite yet.

We still have plenty of supply. The problem is it's nearly impossible to tap new resources because of cost and lawyers, meanwhile our existing taps will begin to run dry in the next 10-20 years, thanks to demand from developing countries.

Alternate energy will have to be developed. While we may be able to dodge it, our grandchildren won't. We might as well begin to develop ways to make life easier for them.

In the meantime, we should drill more. It is easily accessible if lawyers and special interests would get out of the way.

[Arp2]

Alternate energy will have to be developed. While we may be able to dodge it, our grandchildren won't. We might as well begin to develop ways to make life easier for them.

However, we mustn't hold ourselves hostage as the neo-communists known as "the environmental movement" rub their hands together at an incredible opportunity to arrest free movement and attempt to warehouse human slaves in high-density urban housing and take away all discretionary spending power.

Drill...now....! And stop burning corn ASAP!

30% loss of net energy in its production (it takes 130 units of various kinds of energy to produce and deliver 100 units of ethanol energy) and 30% loss in output in the tank (it takes 142 gallons of ethanol to propel your car the distance 100 gallons of gas will)....

This is a manufactured crisis and the biggest scam we will likely see in our lives.....

[Ace Purple]

While waiting at the doctor's office this morning, I happened to flip through the latest issue of Car & Driver, the only male-skewing magazine on the rack. There were many pages devoted to something that I had missed out on, the 35 mpg standard that will be forced on new cars (that sell above X number per year in the United States) effective by 2020. I'm hardly a car expert, but it was interesting to read up on how Detroit is going to handle this new challenge.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2007/12/how-detroit-wil.html

[Hoosier Daddy]

... as "the environmental movement" rub their hands together at an incredible opportunity to arrest free movement and attempt to warehouse human slaves in high-density urban housing and take away all discretionary spending power...

A little melodramatic and over the top, don't you think?

[Bob Campbell]

And I always thought the effort to arrest fee movement was being handled by the far right and their "National Identity card" versions of state drivers' licenses,passport requirements to travel to Canada and Mexico, interminable "security" checks at transportation choke points, and ubiquitous surveillance cameras.

Personally, I'd rather pay 5 bucks a gallon and take my chances on a terrorist attack.

And isn't it funny that the huge runup in oil prices comes under an administration full of "oil people". As if the the increase in price hasn't already restricted free movement.

[Dave Loudin]

Put a nickel on that tonearm.

[Bob Campbell]

Wow! I have no idea how I did that. Though, as I get older, I do tend to repeat stories.

[Bob Campbell]

And somebody please delete the first 2 of those posts. I'm having a hell of a time with this infernal machine.

[Arp2]

... as "the environmental movement" rub their hands together at an incredible opportunity to arrest free movement and attempt to warehouse human slaves in high-density urban housing and take away all discretionary spending power...

A little melodramatic and over the top, don't you think?

No, not one bit.....



....but I do recognize it could sound that way.

Every day, America sends $1.4 billion out of the country (and that might be up to $2 billion...I'm not sure, but I seem to remember the $1.4 figure being based on $80-85/bbl) for oil that it could most likely get from within itself or very close by through American companies.

And, then, even though it's 100% their fault, the neo-communists scream about it.....notice that they remain firmly against every solution except "you lose your personal mobility and/or discretionary income."

Of course, you save for retirement and acquire assets with your discretionary income....the left doesn't want anyone doing that. And "it's not just your car; it's your freedom" is much more than just a former advertising slogan.

[Arp2]

And I always thought the effort to arrest fee movement was being handled by the far right and their "National Identity card" versions of state drivers' licenses....

I don't know anybody on the right seriously interested in that, but it really seems I can hear Democrat Charlie Rangel's haughty voice in my head advocating for that very thing.

...interminable "security" checks at transportation choke points,....

You mean the metal detector at the airport? How are you going to get around that??

...and ubiquitous surveillance cameras.

...almost the exclusive property of liberal-led big cities.

And isn't it funny that the huge runup in oil prices comes under an administration full of "oil people".

Again, if you really believe that, then I want to see you take every penny of your savings, investments, and retirement and put it into oil and oil services stocks. And scan and post the receipts here. If you don't, then it's clear to all you don't really believe that and are merely repeating an assigned loon-left talking point like a brainless sheep.

If you really believe what you're saying, your actions will follow your words. I'll give you a day or two to post the scans....if you don't do it, you're admitting you're a lying hypocrite.

As if the the increase in price hasn't already restricted free movement.

"Increase in price" really isn't the correct wording...."higher cost resulting from increased world demand and falsely constrained local supply" is the truth.

[Bob Campbell]

I really believe what I'm saying. That's why I don't own oil stocks. There are some things more important to me than money. And I haven't bought gas from Exxon since 1973. I still hold a grudge over the first oil shortage.

National identity cards. See current president.

Metal detectors. If it were up to me , I'd get rid of them. I love my country. I'm willing to die for it. If we all were, there would be no value in taking down a plane. If they know it won't affect the way we live, they won't do it. If they want to do it bad enough, metal detectors won't deter them. See 9-11.

[Lester]

I'm willing to die for it. If we all were, there would be no value in taking down a plane. If they know it won't affect the way we live, they won't do it. If they want to do it bad enough, metal detectors won't deter them. See 9-11.

How incredibly Utopian.

[CoolBreeze]

It's my understanding that oil companies make 9 1/2 percent profit per gallon of gas. Clothing makes 100% profit on the average and diamond jewelry 500%.

When I was young, there was ONE family car. Today, there are 2, 3, 4.
There was no "Teays Valley" as we know it today and no interstates here. Most people elected to live as close to their work as possible. In other words, urban sprawl has cause much more gas to be used than ever before, and more people own and operate more cars than ever before, therefore.... more gas is sold than ever before, which means more profit than ever before. But no matter if the oil companies pay $25 a barrel or $200 a barrel for oil, their profit is around 9 1/2 percent. It's YOU that must pay for the increase in oil, because the companies must past that cost on.

Thanks to the environmentalists for causing food to rise in price (corn to gas is without a doubt one of the DUMBEST things I've heard of) and not being allowed to drill our own oil... or build a new refinery in 30 years.

Now with China coming on line, the competition for oil will be even worse.

[Bob Campbell]

The only thing keeping refineries from being built is the oil companies. By the way, Marathon is building one right now. It pays the oil companies to keep refining capacity low. It keeps supply low, thus price high.
Also, the current price of oil is not nearly as related to demand right now as it is to the massive speculation in commodities brought on by the weakness of the dollar. Just this week a slightly stronger dollar has caused the drop of oil, gas, gold, and silver prices.

[Lester]

The only thing keeping refineries from being built is the oil companies. By the way, Marathon is building one right now. It pays the oil companies to keep refining capacity low. It keeps supply low, thus price high.

DING DING DING!!!! This is why oil should be regulated just like utilities such as natural gas and electricity.

Also, the current price of oil is not nearly as related to demand right now as it is to the massive speculation in commodities brought on by the weakness of the dollar.

DING DING DING!!!! Remember the good old days (about 15 years ago), when something *MIGHT* drive up the price of gas, and then it didn't? I don't even think true speculation is driving prices anymore. Big Oil sees something that might, remotely, effect fuel prices, they raise the price anyway.

[Hoosier Daddy]

It's my understand that oil companies make 9 1/2 percent profit per gallon of gas. Clothing makes 100% profit on the average and diamond jewelry 500%.

I don't NEED expensive clothes. In a pinch, I can buy the cheap stuff where the profit margin is less.
I don't NEED diamond jewelry. For anything.

I NEED gas, fuel oil, etc. to work, have an income, pay bills, and stay warm.

HUGE difference in essential vs. non-essential/luxury.

When I was young, there was ONE family car. Today, there are 2, 3, 4.

Is this for convienence or necessity? In our house, two vehicles is not a luxury.

There was no "Teays Valley" as we know it today and no interstates here. Most people elected to live as close to their work as possible. In other words, urban sprawl has cause much more gas to be used than ever before, and more people own and operate more cars than ever before, therefore.... more gas is sold than ever before, which means more profit than ever before.

True enough. There have been some significant lifestyle changes in the past 50 years, along with some infrastructure changes that affect the way we live.

The biggest culprits? Utilities. Fifty years ago, you didn't have rural water and sewer districts. People who lived outside the city dug a well for water and shit in an outhouse. Basic phone and electric service was pretty decent in rural areas from the early 1950s but not before. And, as you mentioned, living fifteen miles out of town back then often meant travelling gravel or dirt country roads (think "The Waltons") to and from work.

With clean running water and sanitary sewers (or septic systems) and with improvements to our roads, it's the same investment of time and gas to live 15 miles out of town and commute as it was to live in North Charleston and commute to Kanawha City fifty years ago. Not to mention lower taxes and a better quality of life.

But no matter if the oil companies pay $25 a barrel or $200 a barrel for oil, their profit is around 9 1/2 percent. It's YOU that must pay for the increase in oil, because the companies must past that cost on.

RECORD profits. And almost none of it being invested in doing things that would bring the cost down. And why should they? A corporation in an unregulated environment exists to do one thing: make money for its investors, and everyone else be damned.

Remember, right now, there are RECORD profits.

I'm with Lester. Petroleum should be regulated. And PLEASE -- DO NOT deregulate electricity, because our electric bills will spiral out of control just like gas prices have done.

Thanks the environmentalists for causing food to rise in price (corn to gas is without a doubt one of the DUMBEST things I've heard of) and not being allowed to drill our own oil... or build a new refinery in 30 years.

BUILD THEM ... and quit using the "wacko-environmentalists" as your excuse for inaction.

[Lester]

I'd point out that the Earth's shell is, by its design, a finite space. We also know what "made" the oil we now pump and use. Where this thought process comes from that drilling more wells will magically create more oil from the oil fairies is much more stupid than "corn to gas". More wells only delays the inevitable. It is a finite resource, and it is running out.

[Arp2]

Also, the current price of oil is not nearly as related to demand right now as it is to the massive speculation in commodities brought on by the weakness of the dollar.

The speculation came first. Let me give you a fascinating timeline....

Just like the NASDAQ already is and more and more markets (including the NYSE) are becoming every year, the NYMEX (where oil is traded) was slated to go electronic, putting the human floor traders of oil permanently out of a job. Very quickly, those traders made big donations to Democrat Senator Charles Schumer of New York and the Democrat Senatorial blah blah blah, and Schumer came to visit them ("to tour the floor" he'd been to a number of times before). Soon after that, Schumer pushed through something in something that mandates humans trade these commoditites, and the rapidly upward "speculation" began, usually defying all logic and reduced geopolitical risk. I can't tell you how many times folks on CNBC said words along the lines of "that doesn't make any sense; why aren't these trades unwinding??"

The dollar's accelerated decline lagged, not lead. Feel free to look it up.

[AmpedNow]

I like the X-Prize approach.


http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 1&from=rss

New X-Prize for Fuel Efficient Cars Announced

Posted by Zonk on Thursday March 20, @10:41AM

miowpurr writes "A new X-Prize for ultra fuel efficient cars has been announced. The winning car must 'carry four or more passengers and have climate control, an audio system and 10 cubic feet of cargo space. They also must have four or more wheels, hit 60 miles per hour in less than 12 seconds and have a minimum top speed of 100 miles per hour and a range of 200 miles. Those that qualify will race their vehicles in cross-country races in 2009 and 2010 that will combine speed, distance, urban driving and overall performance.'"

Left to private sector ingenuity, watch and see if someone don't at least come close to this.


As for the 2020 CAFE standards, notice that it's only the American car companies complaining about this. I haven't heard anything from the Asian auto makers.

This is because the Asian companies will exceed these standards without reducing quality by then, while the American car companies will still be in Washington complaining that they are impossible to meet, and everyone's quality of life will suffer.

Huge difference in the corporate cultures.

But if Detroit thinks the competition is too hot for them now, wait until the Chinese auto makers are unleashed in the States...

Interesting side note: the story talks about Hyundai and how they almost left the US market in 1998, because of poor build quality and horrid reputation. But they have really turned things around in the last decade. I don't think the quality is quite up with the US and Japan, but they're really close now.