Canada’s health care system is on life support

[jag]

Just a thought:

How do we know that the lady in the commercial didn't pay for her hospital stay out of her own pocket or through her own insurance? Would either not entitle her to use her funding in a manner consistent with her own choosing?

[AmpedNow]

I have a friend who's 79. He does nothing but sit in a chair, watching TV and wait to die. He just realized a couple of years ago for the first time (as many people do) this this possibility even existed. Now he's worried. I asked him why? He gave the same old lame excuses that most people give: "I want to see my grandchildren-great grandchildren (take your pick) grow up OK." I told him that they'll do just fine whether he's here or not because life goes on with or without you.

I found this funny in a creepy, morbid sorta way...

And, you're right. None of us will get out of here alive.

But it's not grandma and grandpa's fault that darned old technology has caused life expectancy to increase far beyond what the original SS and Medicare planners envisioned decades ago. Nor is it their fault that inflation and insurance premiums have skyrocketed since then.

As Genlock pointed out, we have two solid generations of Americans who were promised over a lifetime that they would be taken care of in their old age by the system. We have an obligation to make sure it is there for them, somehow, someway, no matter how long they live.

I can think of several other ways to cut SS/Medicare costs without affecting the ones it was intended to help: those 65 or older, and/or those who are disabled and cannot take care of themselves. But we cannot ever, ever allow "death panels" into our health care system -- be it through Obamacare, or some pinheads deciding who gets to live and who doesn't, because they are "too old" or their "quality of life sucks".

I do think that SS and Medicare must be "fundamentally transformed" if it is going to survive beyond another generation. But it needs to be implemented with younger generations, not the ones it was promised to.

I say we start a 100-year plan to phase out all of this crap, but that's for another thread...

[Bob Campbell]

The comforting thing for me here is knowing that Jer, as a man of firm conviction and a lifelong opponent of socialism, will NOT be using any of our money as he ages.
Jer, you DO plan on refusing Social Security and Medicare don't you? Cause taking that would really be the height of hypocrisy for anyone who complains about creeping socialism.
If enough anti-socialim types would put their beliefs into action, maybe it would cure all our deficit problems.

[genlock]

I think of Medicare and Social Security as an investment, made by me in my youth to help me in my golden years.
Some think of medicare and Social Security as a gift from big government (taxpayers) to support and give comfort
to them thru their entire life. Indeed some forms of taxpayer provided government assistance will provide food,
housing, phone, transportation, cable tv and utilities To those unfortunates that have never held a job in their lives.


Santa Claus, Indeed!

Bob, did you really hire Halburn?

[CoolBreeze]

You're all missing the big picture:

50 years ago a person pretty much died of "natural causes". Mostly heart attack, cancer, diabetes. Most of the men I'm personally associated with died in their late 50s, 60s.

The insurance companies (and the government) took all of these odds into consideration when offering benefits. The hope by all of them was that you stayed healthy for your working life, (maybe having a small accident or two along the way) and then dropped dead by 60 or 70.

Along came technology and changed everything. But at WHAT COST? These machines, like the MRI and others cost many millions to develop and build. I watched the very first one being installed here in Charleston years ago. That machine was operated around the clock and there was a two week waiting period just to get in for a long time. Now, there are much more exotic machines and procedures to deal with and pay for. Most of the benefits of these wonderful BUT EXPENSIVE devices and procedures were meant for those who's ability to be productive... meant an outcome over the long haul that would justify those very expensive procedures. Keep emotion out of this discussion! To the community, is it better to keep a 21 year old alive or an 80 year old? How much money would the community spend for both, and what would be the benefit to the community? But if grandma is going to cost as much as the 21 year old (and usually MUCH more) to keep alive for little return except a few most months or years... who's willing to pay? Like I said, if she or the family can... fine.

We have a nation of old people now. The Baby Boomers are about to clean your clock in a ways you never imagined. With almost all of them refusing to "bow out gracefully", and spend every last dollar of your money to stay alive, the entire system is about to collapse. This expensive technology is being used in a way that cannot possibly sustain itself. It can keep people alive that were meant to die YEARS ago, but the cost of that is beyond logic.

We have become a nation of Frankensteins, with people walking around with Pacemakers and now DEFIBRILLATORS in their chests just to keep them alive! Do you know what a Defibrillator costs??
Without complications, the average cost of having a defibrillator implanted is $42,184.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... tors_x.htm

So we've just spent 50 grand (including hospital etc) on an 80 year old, not counting the months of intensive care a couple times a year and all the medicines etc. Typically, a productive person wont spent that in his entire lifetime on medical care. And typically, (in the past anyway) he will pay much less in premiums than the benefits provided. But again, in the past he would have dropped dead. Now he'll live artificially for years longer. WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR ALL THIS? Dont say the Government! YOU are the government.. YOU pay.

[jag]

Again, I ask:

Is it known that the 80-year-old lady in the commercial didn't pay her own hospitalization either from her own pocket or from her own paid insurance?

With respect to life expectancy, the reason it's so long now is that there's less death in the younger years, not more in the older. Many more babies and children used to die than do now. So, would it be better to simply thin the unfit young from the proverbial herd, so to speak?

[genlock]

Hippa.

[Bob Campbell]

I think of Medicare and Social Security as an investment, made by me in my youth to help me in my golden years.
Some think of medicare and Social Security as a gift from big government (taxpayers) to support and give comfort
to them thru their entire life. Indeed some forms of taxpayer provided government assistance will provide food,
housing, phone, transportation, cable tv and utilities To those unfortunates that have never held a job in their lives.


Santa Claus, Indeed!

Bob, did you really hire Halburn?

Well, it's either socialism or it's not, you really cant' have it both ways.
But, on to more important and embarassing things.
Yes, I did. I did hire Halburn. My programming mistake for 2004.
And oh yeah. Me having the courage to admit that means you all owe me something. I'm not sure what. A beer perhaps. Or a kick in the balls. I'd really prefer the beer.

[genlock]

It does take courage to admit hiring Halburn.
Bringing him to radio is like bringing Ebola to the Congo.

I will buy you a beer.

[AmpedNow]

If we look at the raw numbers, then yes, on average, a 21 year old can "give back" more to society than an 80 year old.

But that 80 year old was 21 once. How much have they already contributed to society?

How do you put a price on the wisdom that only comes from living 80+ years?

Who gets to decide that an elderly life is somehow "worth-less" than a younger one? Who gets to say they are no longer worthy of medical care?

Am I the only one who finds the fact that we are beginning to have serious discussions about "doing away" with the elderly by withholding medical care incredibly alarming? Who will be the next group to be "done away" with? We have abundant historical records that show where this kind of thinking eventually leads to...

As for the "Baby Boomers", I won't get started on them, because I'll get myself in trouble.

[CoolBreeze]

We are not "doing away" with them. We are simply allowing nature to do what nature does best: Get the last word.

Let's look at this another way:

Let's say you have two people. One is your 22 year old son and the other is your 80 year old mother. Both will die if they don't have serious medical care amounting to many thousands of dollars. But there's only enough money to save ONE of them, and it's YOUR money. Which one do you save?

Not one person on this board would answer "the old lady". And that's my point. How much money are we willing to spend to keep people alive? We can now install all sorts of expensive gadgets to keep them "artificially alive", and these miracle gadgets and procedures will keep coming and keep getting more expensive. So what's grandma worth? $100.00 ? $500,00? A million? Seriously, in the long run damned near everyone will be paying the bill as a group, so a figure will at some point have to be established.

[Bob Campbell]

We are not "doing away" with them. We are simply allowing nature to do what nature does best: Get the last word.

Let's look at this another way:

Let's say you have two people. One is your 22 year old son and the other is your 80 year old mother. Both will die if they don't have serious medical care amounting to many thousands of dollars. But there's only enough money to save ONE of them, and it's YOUR money. Which one do you save?

Not one person on this board would answer "the old lady". And that's my point. How much money are we willing to spend to keep people alive? We can now install all sorts of expensive gadgets to keep them "artificially alive", and these miracle gadgets and procedures will keep coming and keep getting more expensive. So what's grandma worth? $100.00 ? $500,00? A million? Seriously, in the long run damned near everyone will be paying the bill as a group, so a figure will at some point have to be established.

I save the old lady. I can make more 22 year olds, but I can learn priceless amounts from an 80 year old.

[genlock]

NORTHAMPTON - A 20-year-old Pittsfield driver was cited by police Tuesday after she ran down Lord Jesus Christ in a marked crosswalk at Main Street and Strong Avenue, police said.
RELATED LINK

* Lord Jesus Christ says crosswalk mishap was part of God’s plan

Brittany E. Cantarella was cited for a crosswalk violation, said Northampton police Capt. Scott Savino.

Christ, 50, of Belchertown, was taken to Cooley Dickinson Hospital for treatment of minor injuries following the 3:30 p.m. accident. He was treated at the hospital and then released.

Cantarella was making a left turn from Strong Avenue onto Main Street when her car, a 2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, struck Christ.

Christ was in a marked crosswalk at the time of the accident, Savino said.

Savino said officers checked Christ’s identification at the scene and confirmed it was his legal name.

[jag]

a figure will at some point have to be established.

Let us consider: WHO will be responsible for establishing this "figure"? HOW will this "figure" be determined?

It concerns me to think that people such as Stephen Hawking might long ago have been taken from our presence before they'd made some very important contributions to our lives. Granted, an exceptional instance, but one which must, nonetheless, be considered.

[genlock]

Has the 80 year old mom completed her will?
Are you the lucky future owner of her estate?

[CoolBreeze]

HOW will this "figure" be determined?

I will be determined by the amount of money available for the procedure. If you're filthy rich, you pay a million dollars if you want, no problem. If the government or insurance pays... then the limit will be what's available.

And trust me... like everything else in this world, there IS a limit.

Hell... no one, not the government or insurance is going to pay for a defibrillator implant for a very old person now. So that's a limit in itself.

Another example: I have a friend who has Cerebral palsy so bad that he went from a healthy middle age man to a baby in a wheelchair. There was a procedure to implant a special device in his brain that cost $300,000, but would most likely help him regain control over his body. NO ONE, NOT THE GOVERNMENT NOR THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WOULD SPEND ONE PENNY ON THIS PROCEDURE. So his father coughed up THREE HUNDRED GRAND, and had it done. The man is now able to walk and has regained much of his motor function.

OK... it's an expensive, VERY tricky procedure, that has the possibility of helping a person tremendously. But it's one of that deals that not one single company or government will go near. Many of you might think "yea, that's just ANOTHER procedure that should be covered". Covered for who? 45 year olds? 80 year olds? See, in this case not even age matters.

[Bob Campbell]

I'd been meaning to keep this info private for a bit longer, but I guess it's time to reveal all.

I will be making the decisions.
The money amounts, who lives, who doesn't. All of it.
I got a note from somebody really important saying I would do it.

[genlock]

A YOUNG mum died after a series of blunders by doctors who failed to spot a six-inch long TOILET BRUSH HANDLE embedded in her buttock, an inquest was told today.

Cindy Corton, 35, was left with the bizarre injury after a drunken fall in a friend's bathroom in 2005 but "serious errors" by doctors then led to her death.

It was two years before Cindy, who was in constant pain, was able to convince doctors that the thin serrated plastic handle was stuck in the flesh of her bottom.

By then what should have been a routine procedure to remove it had become much more dangerous because the handle had become embedded in her pelvis.

After two unsuccessful operations in 2007 the mother-of-one was in such agony that she agreed to undergo further surgery in June last year despite being told it could prove fatal.

Cindy of Sleaford, Lincs, spent more than ten hours in surgery at Nottingham's Queens Medical Centre but died from massive blood loss.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... z0oPW8RLJO

[AmpedNow]

NORTHAMPTON - A 20-year-old Pittsfield driver was cited by police Tuesday after she ran down Lord Jesus Christ in a marked crosswalk at Main Street and Strong Avenue, police said.
RELATED LINK

* Lord Jesus Christ says crosswalk mishap was part of God’s plan

Brittany E. Cantarella was cited for a crosswalk violation, said Northampton police Capt. Scott Savino.

Christ, 50, of Belchertown, was taken to Cooley Dickinson Hospital for treatment of minor injuries following the 3:30 p.m. accident. He was treated at the hospital and then released.

Cantarella was making a left turn from Strong Avenue onto Main Street when her car, a 2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, struck Christ.

Christ was in a marked crosswalk at the time of the accident, Savino said.

Savino said officers checked Christ’s identification at the scene and confirmed it was his legal name.

THIS is who we have been praying to all of these years?

"Where is your god now?" He lives in Belchertown.

[CoolBreeze]

Canada’s reputation for low infant mortality takes stunning decline

Once able to boast about its high world ranking for low infant mortality, Canada has now dropped from sixth to 24th place – just above Hungary and Poland.

The death rate of infants less than one year of age – 5.1 per 1,000 live births – has been called “shockingly high” and translates into 1,881 mortalities in 2007, according to the most recent data collected by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.

About three-quarters of those deaths occurred in the first 27 days of life.

The drop in ranking below countries such as Sweden, Japan, Finland, France, Ireland and Greece has prompted a prominent doctors group to request an urgent meeting with the federal Health Minister to push for a national birthing strategy.

“We’re losing our reputation,” said André Lalonde, executive vice-president of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada. “We have fallen way behind.”

Said Dr. Shah. “Here, we have medicalized the care in such a way that parents are less involved during hospitalization and suddenly, one day when baby comes home, they are expected to provide complete care. It’s an entirely different concept.”

Even the Conference Board of Canada has described this country’s rate of infant mortality as “shockingly high,” causing many to wonder: How can such a rich country do so poorly with its most vulnerable citizens?