Canada’s health care system is on life support

[CoolBreeze]

Canada’s ailing health care system is on life support compared to most European countries, says a Western Canada-based think tank.

The conservative Frontier Centre for Public Policy released its third annual Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index Friday, which weighs the consumer friendliness of Canada’s system versus 33 European countries.

Continuing problems with bloated wait times and dealing with bureaucratic red tape saw Canada rank 25 out of 34 countries surveyed, leaving it behind nations like Estonia, the Czech Republic and Cyprus in delivering solid care.

Ben Eisen, a policy analyst for the Frontier Centre, said while Canada has shown some minor improvement, it struggles against all but the poorest of European states and hasn’t mastered the efficiencies shared by the top performers.

“We still have a long way to go before Canada can claim to have a world-class health care system that is responsive to the needs of its consumers,” he said.

“Canada spends as much money as the top performers on health care like the Netherlands and Germany, but we haven’t been able to match their levels of efficiency.”

According to the survey, Canada’s weakest link remains wait times, with delays for MRI and other diagnostic exams often taking months while top European cities will offer patient access in less than a week.

Access to information and difficulty in getting access to a second opinion were also highlighted as problem areas as was access to new medicines.

In Canada it takes an average of 314 days for newly approved medicines to enter the provincial subsidy system versus about 150 days in countries like Germany and Ireland.

David Eggen, executive director of Friends of Medicare, said he’s not surprised by the results and noted both federal and provincial governments could repair much of the problems by putting more focus on slashing wait times.

“If Canadian governments took public health care more seriously, we’d move up that list rapidly,” he said.

“We have a good structure in place already but we need to focus more attention on reducing wait times and getting better value for our dollar.”

The Netherlands, Germany and Iceland are the top three ranked medical services on the list.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/ ... 54586.html

[DJSHOCKLEY]

yep...

And still 1000 times better than what we have to deal with in the U.S.:

Bartlett & Steele - "Critical Condition"
PRINT PAGE
EN ESPAÑOL

How Health Care in America Became Big Business - And Bad Medicine
By Donald L. Barlett & James B. Steele

Politicians love to say that the United States has the best health care system in the world. In truth, it doesn’t come close. Certainly, no one disputes that the nation has many talented, highly trained professionals who work with the latest equipment, who are knowledgeable and capable of delivering first-rate care. But what kind of system shuts out forty-four million Americans? What kind of system excludes people with illnesses beyond their control? What kind of system insures a husband but denies coverage to his wife? What kind of system forces people to choose between risking financial ruin and risking their lives?http://www.pnhp.org/news/2004/october/b ... teele_.php

[CoolBreeze]

Forty-four million Americans? It has been proven that the number is actually less than half that. Illegals are counted in that number. So are people who don't WANT to pay for insurance (mostly young).

But this isn't about OUR health care... it's about THEIRS.

I have a 30 year friend who's Canadian and lives there now. She was once married to the engineer of Capitol Broadcasting. She tells me that the Canadian system is getting worse all the time and that she'll probably die while waiting to get necessary tests.

Here, you can run up a bill into the many thousands, and as long as you pay a little each month on the Bill, even with NO possibility of ever paying it off... you skate. I know a retired judge that get's a 67 thousand dollar pension a year. He has a hospital bill of about 56 thousand. He pays maybe $100 a month. He knows it will never be payed off and he's happy as hell.

[DJSHOCKLEY]

Forty-four million Americans? It has been proven that the number is actually less than half that.

Really??? Where? When? By who?


Illegals are counted in that number.

Any proof that Bartlett and Steele included illegals in that count?

So are people who don't WANT to pay for insurance (mostly young).

Don't WANT TO v.s. Can't AFFORD... Sorry.. Most Can't afford..

But this isn't about OUR health care... it's about THEIRS.

I agree.. And theirs is still MUCH better than ours..

I have a 30 year friend who's Canadian and lives there now. She was once married to the engineer of Capitol Broadcasting. She tells me that the Canadian system is getting worse all the time and that she'll probably die while waiting to get necessary tests.

Tens of thousands die every year in America due to a lack of Health Insurance. and its cuz they can't afford it, not cuz they can't wait that long.

Here, you can run up a bill into the many thousands, and as long as you pay a little each month on the Bill, even with NO possibility of ever paying it off...
you skate.

Thats not true.. Thousands get DENIED care every year... Thousands of Americans die every year because they cannot afford their meds...

I know a retired judge that get's a 67 thousand dollar pension a year. He has a hospital bill of about 56 thousand. He pays maybe $100 a month. He knows it will never be payed off and he's happy as hell.

Tens of thousands that die every year do NOT have that option..

Again, read the book, then maybe you will understand what a horrible mess the health care system in America is..

[CoolBreeze]

But this isn't about OUR health care... it's about THEIRS.

[jag]

You kids play nice, now!

...'cause if you don't, I'll let you eat ice cream until you have a belly ache. Then, when you're both sick as dogs, I'll let you argue the "point."

[genlock]

Maybe we will have the worst of both worlds.

[CoolBreeze]

Tonight I saw a commercial on WSAZ for an Ohio hospital. They were showcasing what appeared to be, a woman who was at least 80 years old.. maybe more. The lady says "I spent four months in the hospital". The doctors said that she only had about a 20% chance to live... and they literally brought her back from the grave.

OK... at WHAT COST?

Think about the hospital bill for FOUR MONTHS in intensive care! That bed and those resources could have gone to someone much younger.

That's the problem today with old people: They want to live forever, no matter what it costs... you. No one seems to want to get off the stage anymore. However, I DO know a few people personally who will go the "natural way" when the time comes. I'm one of them.

Point is that as long as people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay alive no matter WHAT their age... no health system, Canadian, American, European can survive.

In the meantime, that Ohio hospital commercial makes ME sick...

[Bob Campbell]

So, are you advocating death panels or euthenasia?

[genlock]

Siberian coal mines.
Work them till they drop.
Socialist workers paradise.

[CoolBreeze]

So, are you advocating death panels or euthenasia?

Here's what I think: If YOU have the money to keep yourself alive forever, by ALL means spend every last penny! But if you've got one foot in the grave, don't expect ME to keep you alive with my money. That's why you have family and friends to help if they think you should live well beyond your years.

Let's face it, even people who love their dogs know that when the time comes and the dog is old, there's not much point in spending thousands to a Vet to keep him alive a few more days or months. We decide that he's had enough, and his quality of life is shot to hell.

I personally know of two women who are in their 80s and have been in the hospital at least 6 times each in the last 18 months. They were given up for lost at least 4 times. The family (including me) was called in for "the last time". But like Frankenstein, they were literally brought back from the grave each time. I finally stopped going to the hospital when "the call came" because I knew they'd be out in a week... and they were! Both are still living, until the next episode of $50,000 treatments, of which the "insurance company" is paying. Another reason why health insurance is so high of course.

OK... so most people are afraid to die and they're willing to spend everybody's money for one more day. That's not going to work much longer. "Back in the day" you gracefully bowed-out. Today it's every man for himself, as long as somebody else pays for it. Again... something must change.

Panels? I think that that's what it will come to. People looking at age, infirmary, continuing longevity, and quality of life.... just like you do with your old dog at the vet, and then deciding. And if you disagree with the findings, YOU come up with the money to change the outcome.

[genlock]

So we get a group and carry grandma out to the middle of an ice floe?
Sorry Jerry, I pay for my insurance and I expect it to be there when I need it.
All thru my working life I paid for the insurance and Medicare too.
I will bet I didn't have a half dozen claims (all small) in my entire working life.
Now it is time for the banked insurance to keep my sorry ass alive.
As they promised.

[Bob Campbell]

So, are you advocating death panels or euthenasia?

Here's what I think: If YOU have the money to keep yourself alive forever, by ALL means spend every last penny! But if you've got one foot in the grave, don't expect ME to keep you alive with my money. That's why you have family and friends to help if they think you should live well beyond your years.

Let's face it, even people who love their dogs know that when the time comes and the dog is old, there's not much point in spending thousands to a Vet to keep him alive a few more days or months. We decide that he's had enough, and his quality of life is shot to hell.

I personally know of two women who are in their 80s and have been in the hospital at least 6 times each in the last 18 months. They were given up for lost at least 4 times. The family (including me) was called in for "the last time". But like Frankenstein, they were literally brought back from the grave each time. I finally stopped going to the hospital when "the call came" because I knew they'd be out in a week... and they were! Both are still living, until the next episode of $50,000 treatments, of which the "insurance company" is paying. Another reason why health insurance is so high of course.

OK... so most people are afraid to die and they're willing to spend everybody's money for one more day. That's not going to work much longer. "Back in the day" you gracefully bowed-out. Today it's every man for himself, as long as somebody else pays for it. Again... something must change.

Panels? I think that that's what it will come to. People looking at age, infirmary, continuing longevity, and quality of life.... just like you do with your old dog at the vet, and then deciding. And if you disagree with the findings, YOU come up with the money to change the outcome.

So...death panels AND euthanasia then?
Remember...Soylent Green is people!!

Oh yeah, aren't you getting pretty close to "panel age" Jer?

[CoolBreeze]

Sorry Jerry, I pay for my insurance and I expect it to be there when I need it. All thru my working life I paid for the insurance and Medicare too.Now it is time for the banked insurance to keep my sorry ass alive. As they promised.

All of the money you've paid would barely cover a good heart operation. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't take advantage of the insurance you paid for. I'm saying that to eat up hundreds of thousands of dollars when you're 80 is doing nothing but keeping you alive one more day while "productive people" may suffer.

To me, life is easy: You're born, you live , you die. Dying is becoming much more difficult than it used to be. And living one more day much more expensive. Nature has a plan for you, and you'll never get out of this world alive. But doctors who play Frankenstein (for the money) hope you live long enough at least that they get paid. So embrace life...AND death and let somebody else take a shot at it.

I have a friend who's 79. He does nothing but sit in a chair, watching TV and wait to die. He just realized a couple of years ago for the first time (as many people do) this this possibility even existed. Now he's worried. I asked him why? He gave the same old lame excuses that most people give: "I want to see my grandchildren-great grandchildren (take your pick) grow up OK." I told him that they'll do just fine whether he's here or not because life goes on with or without you.

I asked him another question more to the point: What did you do yesterday? He said "watched TV, maybe cut the grass, maybe got on the computer". And what did you do 5 years ago? "watched TV, maybe cut the grass, maybe got on the computer". And what will you be doing should you live another 10 years? "watch TV, maybe cut the grass, maybe get on the computer". Ok... so you're living the movie Groundhog Day, and those 10 years from now that you're so worried about are going to be exactly like today, yesterday, and 5 years ago. So for THIS you feel like worrying? Pal, you're in Purgatory! While I hope he lives as long as possible, I dont see a reason to shell out 50 grand every time he goes to the hospital. In the old days, people had the grace to call it quits. Now, everyone's a selfish bastard and wants to live forever. Hate to tell you... you've got a surprise coming!

[DJSHOCKLEY]

Sorry Jerry, I pay for my insurance and I expect it to be there when I need it. All thru my working life I paid for the insurance and Medicare too.Now it is time for the banked insurance to keep my sorry ass alive. As they promised.

All of the money you've paid would barely cover a good heart operation. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't take advantage of the insurance you paid for. I'm saying that to eat up hundreds of thousands of dollars when you're 80 is doing nothing but keeping you alive one more day while "productive people" may suffer.

To me, life is easy: You're born, you live , you die. Dying is becoming much more difficult than it used to be. And living one more day much more expensive. Nature has a plan for you, and you'll never get out of this world alive. But doctors who play Frankenstein (for the money) hope you live long enough at least that they get paid. So embrace life...AND death and let somebody else take a shot at it.

I have a friend who's 79. He does nothing but sit in a chair, watching TV and wait to die. He just realized a couple of years ago for the first time (as many people do) this this possibility even existed. Now he's worried. I asked him why? He gave the same old lame excuses that most people give: "I want to see my grandchildren-great grandchildren (take your pick) grow up OK." I told him that they'll do just fine whether he's here or not because life goes on with or without you.

I asked him another question more to the point: What did you do yesterday? He said "watched TV, maybe cut the grass, maybe got on the computer". And what did you do 5 years ago? "watched TV, maybe cut the grass, maybe got on the computer". And what will you be doing should you live another 10 years? "watch TV, maybe cut the grass, maybe get on the computer". Ok... so you're living the movie Groundhog Day, and those 10 years from now that you're so worried about are going to be exactly like today, yesterday, and 5 years ago. So for THIS you feel like worrying? Pal, you're in Purgatory! While I hope he lives as long as possible, I dont see a reason to shell out 50 grand every time he goes to the hospital. In the old days, people had the grace to call it quits. Now, everyone's a selfish bastard and wants to live forever. Hate to tell you... you've got a surprise coming!

So, if u get sick, are you gonna go to the hospital, or are ya gonna "have the grace to call it quits?"

[genlock]

If I shouldn't us my insurance, why did I have to pay for it?

[CoolBreeze]

Naturally that depends on several things: (just as it should to anyone)

1.. age... I'm at the point where everything I was going to do got done. I'm lucky that I managed this in the time allotted. It's all down hill from here and no reason to fight it. For those in their late 70s and 80s... your life is finished. Enjoy the time you have and the memories of your lifetime. Go to the other side without fear.

2.. Infirmary ... Let's say that the docs give me a 60% chance to live if I have chemo for cancer. At my age now, screw that! I don't need the sickness and hassle of treatments. Now, give me a 70% chance to live with treatment? I'll consider it. I know some people who will also take these stats into account when they make that decision.

3... quality of life.... right now my lifetime of serious injuries are coming home to roost. It wont get any better as time goes on. So eventually you simply get tired of it all and look for some peace. I know several old people personally who helped themselves out. I have much respect for them.

[CoolBreeze]

If I shouldn't us my insurance, why did I have to pay for it?

Your insurance is MOSTLY for the working years when you have a family to support and or bills to pay. After that, when you have no debts and the kids are gone.... the insurance is just icing on the cake, because no matter how long you live, the odds of doing anything as productive as the previous 40 years are next to nothing.

But again.... what are you willing to allow the insurance co to spend (of other peoples money) to keep you alive in old age? A million? 5 million?

Remember, it's NOT the insurance company you're screwing. It's the other policy holders.

[DJSHOCKLEY]

If I shouldn't us my insurance, why did I have to pay for it?

Your insurance is MOSTLY for the working years when you have a family to support and or bills to pay. After that, when you have no debts and the kids are gone.... the insurance is just icing on the cake, because no matter how long you live, the odds of doing anything as productive as the previous 40 years are next to nothing.

I WISH it was that simple..

Anywho,

When u decide to give up the ghost as opposed to get whatever operation u need to keep u alive, can I have your collection of Old Charleston pics?

[CoolBreeze]

Too late! Spoken for. But I'll think of something....