IF YOU THOUGHT THE TEA PARTY WAS BIG...

[genlock]

I don't think the intent of the bill is to deport Zha Zha Gabor back to Hungary.
Or Borat or anyone else specific. The problem is with the inaction of the
federal government over the last few decades. Cheap, plentiful labor
available in areas where it is needed. Pickers, concrete men, diggers
are all needed. I am surprised the unions have not spoken like they di
a couple of years ago.
I wonder if Mexicans do underground mining?

[AmpedNow]

I have seen both sides of this issue first hand. Some of my best friends are legal immigrants. I also know a couple of people who overstayed their Visas. One dude got deported and then sneaked back in and went right back to work as soon as he got back.

The one thing that most of my legal friends have in common is while they are sympathetic to other people's desire to come to the States for a better life, they get extremely pissed at the idea of some of these people being overlooked for cutting line. They went through the INS headaches of coming here legally (it really is a huge headache), and by God, they should wait their turn.

I don't know what the perfect answer is... I'm all for tightening border security just to combat the gangs and narco traffickers if anything. OTOH, I don't see how we can deport the 12+million illegals that are already here in an orderly fashion. There is no way that would end well.

I guess my biggest hangup about this whole thing is the blatant ignoring of our laws going on. We are a nation of laws, and they should be respected. If you want to change the INS procedures into something quicker and simpler, then by all means, go for it. But let's respect our laws in the process.

I also don't dispute the fact that many bigots and racists are jumping on this bandwagon. But I resent the hell out of being called a racist just because I support checks and balances in dealing with illegal immigration. I also think it is beyond outrageous that our president has stooped to political pandering to these people by using this as a racial wedge issue. It is pretty clear to me that he has already all but given up on the white vote in 2012. But hey, all non-liberal whites are inherently racist anyway. Who would even want their votes?

The irony is that most of the politicians who are accusing everybody of racism have probably only experienced Latino culture in how well they can clean their houses and mow their lawns...

Tea Party... see ...shark, jumping the.

Why yes, it absolutely is. Nothing to see there. Move along...

/November 2

[Jay Nunley]

Lester, I couldn't agree more about illegal vs legal immigration. What I meant about the "real discussion" is what Amped was talking about with it being too difficult to do it legally and also what you were saying about playing by the rules. There are also serious security issues involved as you mentioned. I think Bob is also right when he says there will be some abuse of the law by enforcement agents. Also to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that people opposed to illegal immigration were racists or xenophobes just because they were opposed to illegal immigration. I'm opposed to illegal immigration and I don't give a damn about anyone's skin color. However, I listen to people. I listen to people a lot. I don't mean talking heads on TV and radio or the douchebags who call in to those shows or politically corrected public speech. I listen to people. There is a lot of fear when it comes to immigrants. There is fear of our culture and language changing. There is xenophobia. There is more of that than most of my conservative brethren care to admit. There is also some racism. There is less of it than most of my liberal brethren think.

[Bob Campbell]

Wow, do you guys realize we're actually having a two sided discussion on this topic? You know, usually it's me HD, Shockley and a few other libs trading barbs with Lester, CB, and the other right wing whackos. This time, despite a few zingers, both sides are actually presenting thought out points. There is hope for America...or at least us nuts.

One thing that gets me is ...why is everybody all of a sudden so worried about this issue? It's not like there has been any huge influx in the last couple years. This has been going on for the better part of a century. It seems a few years ago, with Congress and the White House in Republican hands, and the conservative agenda having pretty much unfettered sway, the talk show bloviators ( you know who I mean) jumped on this issue because they were low on hot buttons. Their big paychecks require a constant "them" to fixate upon and inspire fear and anger towards.
Perhaps I missed some huge incident, but I don't recall any great paradigm change other than media that got this issue to front burner status.
Was there some big thing?
Look how incensed many of you guys in WV are. How in the world does this issue effect you? Are there tons of illegals hiding in Kanawha City? Certainly they're not in Logan County. Good lord, there's hardly any minorities in WV at all, unless you count toothless redneck People of Walmart...and of course Hallburn.
I'm here in one of the states with the most illegals (so they say) and it doesn't effect me a bit. Without the illegal migrant farm workers, your cigarettes would cost another dollar a pack, maybe that's it?

[Lester]

One thing that gets me is ...why is everybody all of a sudden so worried about this issue? It's not like there has been any huge influx in the last couple years.

The political pandering to illegals. The loss of radio frequencies to pander to illegals. Coming home from Iraq and finding that my Lowe's Home Improvement Center changed all the signs to bilingual. Having to tell my ATM that I want English instead of Spanish before it will allow me to proceed with my transaction. A 200% increase in illegal immigrants to North Carolina in less than 10 years. 8% of the NC population being responsible for 20% of the DUI's. My sons having to deal with Mexican gangs at school. Your liberal friends already targeting them for votes. Continual redistricting of schools (and raising of property taxes) to cover illegal children, whose parents aren't paying taxes. Allowing them to attend community colleges. My uninsured motorist coverage going up because of uninsured illegals.

You want me to keep going?

[Bob Campbell]

One thing that gets me is ...why is everybody all of a sudden so worried about this issue? It's not like there has been any huge influx in the last couple years.

The political pandering to illegals. The loss of radio frequencies to pander to illegals. Coming home from Iraq and finding that my Lowe's Home Improvement Center changed all the signs to bilingual. Having to tell my ATM that I want English instead of Spanish before it will allow me to proceed with my transaction. A 200% increase in illegal immigrants to North Carolina in less than 10 years. 8% of the NC population being responsible for 20% of the DUI's. My sons having to deal with Mexican gangs at school. Your liberal friends already targeting them for votes. Continual redistricting of schools (and raising of property taxes) to cover illegal children, whose parents aren't paying taxes. My uninsured motorist coverage going up because of uninsured illegals.

You want me to keep going?

Aside from your sons' problems, you're having a pretty good day.
Bi-lingual signs really upset you? Good thing the Cherokee didn't make us learn their language.
Wow, if you lived in Hawaii or California or New York or Boston, among others, you'd have to deal with signs in Chinese, Japanese and Korean too. Bet some of them are here illegally.
You do know violent crime and DUIs have decreased in NC in the last decade don't you?
My property taxes went down. And you do know that you can deduct your property taxes from your Federal taxes don't you?
What do you pay for uninsured coverage per year? 20 bucks maybe?
Will you trade cheaper insurance for 4 a head lettuce? 20 percent higher construction costs? Another dollar a pack for smokes? Bet you pay more for those things than any of the others on an annual basis.
Again, aside from your sons' problems, you just sound like you don't like Hispanics.

[genlock]

Obey the law.

[AmpedNow]

Out of Obama's "big 3" legislation items, this is the one I could get on board with: Immigration reform.

As long as it is done in a bipartisan way, minus blatant the political pandering.

Oh, and the gangbangers and rebelrousers still have to go.

Of course, he will likely ram this through along partisan party lines as well. But I look forward to the day when our government can have good ol' fashioned floor debates once again.

[Lester]

Again, aside from your sons' problems, you just sound like you don't like Hispanics.

Wow, Bob... an ignorant toss of the race card... at least you waited until the end.

My favorite ATM, so far, is the BOA located near the lobby of our building. It asks me if I want to proceed in English, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, French, Italian and probably a couple of others. At least that is being all inclusive. The assumption that my country has been solely overrun by another is, well, wrong to anyone that actually likes America.

I have zero problem with anyone in this country LEGALLY, regardless of race. My best friend is second generation Mexican immigrant (legal, by the way), so your tossing of the race card to hide your desire to see America's identity erased is pathetic and insulting. It shows how little YOU know about what is going on in the world around you... but that is par for the course with most of your posts.

And Salma Hayek... I'd hit that so hard that if you could pull me out, you'd be the new King of England.

[Bob Campbell]

Again, aside from your sons' problems, you just sound like you don't like Hispanics.

Wow, Bob... an ignorant toss of the race card... at least you waited until the end.

My favorite ATM, so far, is the BOA located near the lobby of our building. It asks me if I want to proceed in English, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, French, Italian and probably a couple of others. At least that is being all inclusive. The assumption that my country has been solely overrun by another is, well, wrong to anyone that actually likes America.

I have zero problem with anyone in this country LEGALLY, regardless of race. My best friend is second generation Mexican immigrant (legal, by the way), so your tossing of the race card to hide your desire to see America's identity erased is pathetic and insulting. It shows how little YOU know about what is going on in the world around you... but that is par for the course with most of your posts.

And Salma Hayek... I'd hit that so hard that if you could pull me out, you'd be the new King of England.

And your use of the code phrase "American identity" shows exactly where you're coming from.
Try to use "melting pot" every now and then and you might sound less, let's say, racially insensitive.
What exactly is our "American identity"? Isn't it a rainbow pot of colors, heritages and languages?
America was settled by multiple ethnicities, albeit some non-voluntarily. Why does your specific heritage take precedence?
You don't have to be afraid of change Lester. It won't do any good, change always happens. And I'm not talking about politically.
It's natural to fear that which is different. America's great strength is its ability to adapt and strengthen itself with the addition of the the new and vital.
And I notice you went straight for the race card in your reply because you couldn't argue with the facts. Despite how ever many illegals are in NC, crime is down, DUIs are down, property taxes aren't through the roof ,despite NC having below average income tax rates (aren't you glad you're not paying WV rates?).
And heck, you don't even seem to have any of the other gang problems in most schools, only illegal immigrant gangs. Glad you don't have to worry about the other gangs.

[Lester]

Try to use "melting pot" every now and then and you might sound less, let's say, racially insensitive.

I'm quite aware of the Melting Pot, Bob... are you? Is America made of of massively segregated pockets of people that only speak Italian, Chinese (pick your dialect), or Japanese? Are all of these languages represented on the signs at Lowe's? Where is your "melting pot" now, Bob?

What exactly is our "American identity"? Isn't it a rainbow pot of colors, heritages and languages?

Yes. HeritageS and languageS.

says blah, blah, blah

Seriously, Dude. You've lost your initial argument. You asked why people care, I told you, and you lashed out with ignorant race-baiting and typical liberal hatred. And now you continue to muddy the argument with statements that have nothing to do with my point. Seriously, they really don't let you stand on the bully-pulpit anymore, do they?

[CoolBreeze]

Bottom line: If you shouldn't be here.. get out.

When I go to Russia, First I must pay $100 for a VISA. Then I'm given a list of government approved hotels. I must choose one, and no other. I must state when I'm arriving, and what day I'm leaving. Other than that, I'm not harassed in any way. But God help me if I over stay my welcome, because the authorities would be looking for me as though I were a spy, and once found, I would be questioned and (hopefully) be personally placed on the next jet out of the country.

That's the way it should be here.

[Lester]

Hell, try illegally immigrating into Mexico and see how you're greeted.

[Bob Campbell]

Bottom line: If you shouldn't be here.. get out.

When I go to Russia, First I must pay $100 for a VISA. Then I'm given a list of government approved hotels. I must choose one, and no other. I must state when I'm arriving, and what day I'm leaving. Other than that, I'm not harassed in any way. But God help me if I over stay my welcome, because the authorities would be looking for me as though I were a spy, and once found, I would be questioned and (hopefully) be personally placed on the next jet out of the country.

That's the way it should be here.

Hell, try illegally immigrating into Mexico and see how you're greeted.

C'mon guys, you who love America so much. Which country do you really rather us be like, Russia or Mexico?
Like I said Initially, here's what's going to happen long term. Everybody already here gets to stay here and gets a path to citizenship. Guest worker visas will become the norm for everybody else and the same amount of people will still come here every year.
By the way, we desperately need all those people coming across the border. This is one of the reasons no politician wants to touch the subject. The United States steadily declining birth rate means our population will soon flatten and begin declining ( already growth comes from immigration not births), decreasing our work force pool and eventually having a devastating effect on our economy. That's the real reason no action is taken to seal the borders.

[jag]

It seems that there's a faction here who believes that it's imperative for the US to be unique, even if doing so is not conducive to being correct. Likewise, another faction seems to believe that the US should accede, at least to some degree, to the directions taken by other countries again, even if this is not in the best interest of all. I'll not denote which is which, for I'm not pointing the finger of accusation. Rather, I'm simply making an observation, which, for better or worse, could be right or wrong.

[AmpedNow]

And Salma Hayek... I'd hit that so hard that if you could pull me out, you'd be the new King of England.

If all the Mexican border hoppers looked like this, I wouldn't care too much.

[Bob Campbell]

Common ground at last.
Aaaahhhhh....

[Jay Nunley]

I don't recall giving Amped permission to post a pic of my girlfriend. Goddamn internet. No privacy for anyone.

[The People's DJ]

I don't recall giving Amped permission to post a pic of my girlfriend. Goddamn internet. No privacy for anyone.

WHAT!!! Your girlfriend? That damn dirty...