Ford Turns Profit..Despite Unions!

[Bob Campbell]

Wow, Ford makes over 2 bill in 2009 profit. How in the world did that happen with unions trying to destroy them?
On a related note, Toyota, who lost money in 2009 despite not being unionized, had to recall hundreds of thousands more vehicles due to shoddy workmanship. How could this be possible?

[Hoosier Daddy]

Could be that unions were never a part of the problem in the first place.
They were convienently used as a scapegoat by managers trying to hide their own poor decision-making.

If you'll notice, all those CEO types have a contract that gives them millions every year and perks galore.
Management and their Boards of Directors argue that big dollars and contracts what you need to get and keep the best people.
They just don't want any of the Little People to enjoy the same benefit.

[DJSHOCKLEY]

Could be that unions were never a part of the problem in the first place.
They were convienently used as a scapegoat by managers trying to hide their own poor decision-making.

If you'll notice, all those CEO types have a contract that gives them millions every year and perks galore.
Management and their Boards of Directors argue that big dollars and contracts what you need to get and keep the best people.
They just don't want any of the Little People to enjoy the same benefit.

No way... Couldn't be that... Not Limbaugh nor Beck have ever told me to believe that therefore it could not possibly be true..

[Bob Campbell]

Does the Buffalo plant make trucks or cars?

[genlock]

Buffalo Stamping Plant manufactures sheetmetal stampings and welded sub-assemblies for Ford Motor Company's automotive car and truck assembly plants in the USA, Canada and Mexico. The facility was opened in 1950 with 1,235,895 square feet (114,818.4 m2) of working floor space. It has had six major expansions and the facility is now at 2,452,883 square feet (227,880.3 m2) or 53.3 acres (216,000 m2) of floor space.

The plant is located on an 88-acre (360,000 m2) site at the Eastern end of Lake Erie near the city of Buffalo, New York. The facility processes over 1,700 tons of steel each day and ships an average of 100 rail cars of parts manufactured daily. During the year, over 425,000 tons of steel are received for manufacturing at the facility. The facility has 20 major press stamping lines that include several transfer presses which include some of the world's largest. One of those large transfer presses is the Schuler. This press is 162 feet (49 m) long, 88 feet (27 m) high from the basement to the top of the crown and weights in excess of 7,000,000 pounds.

Buffalo Stamping is a surrogate[clarification needed] with two Ford Motor Company's Canadian assembly plants due to the volume of parts supplied to those facilities. St. Thomas Assembly plant located near London, Ontario, assembles the Ford Crown Victoria and the Mercury Grand Marquis. The other Canadian customer is Oakville Assembly Plant which assembles the Ford Edge & Flex, and Lincoln MKX & MKT (new for 2010MY).

The combined requirements of parts manufactured equates to almost 100 separate stampings and welded sub-assemblies for these customers. The facility supplies a total of 15 customers, Ford assembly plants and Ford part distribution depots. Buffalo Stamping Plant strives for continuous improvements in safety, working conditions, diversity and environmental issues.[citation needed] The facility recently received recommendation for endorsement to the International ISO 14001 Standard for Environmental Management Systems.

Buffalo Stamping Plant is the first major stamping facility in North America t

[AmpedNow]

I will keep driving my Toyota, even though I may wind up over a hill somewhere.

Actually, it doesn't affect my model year.

I guess it's about time for Toyota to have their own "exploding gas tank" controversy. They should have been up front and honest about this issue from the beginning. Now they have subjected themselves to some huge lawsiuts.

[CoolBreeze]

Talk about one sided....
The Unions were the DEATH KNELL to the American automobile industry. That doesn't mean that management wasnt making really stupid decisions either! There's PLENTY of blame to go around!

But I can tell you what the Unions DID do. They would sabotage their own cars on the line when they were pissed off. That happened often, and the history is there... go Google it. How in the HELL does it help a dumbass to sabotage his own work? Who's that effect in the long run? Him... that's who.

I walked through the plants many times over the years. I never , not one time saw an auto worker looking at what he was doing, as they all watched us. Yes... they can build cars blindfolded after doing it about 10,000 times... and the cars they turned out verified that.

The point I'm making is that it ALL went down the tubes together, with the Union taking the lead. I bought my last American BUILT car in 1974 and swore to myself that I'd never own another and apparently a few million people followed me.

As to Ford: Much wiser and much different set-up than GM. The only thing they ever had in common was the use of Union labor. Ford made some serious changes with the Union. They said... take less and keep your job or go on the unemployment line, because we have a fully automated plant in South America that we can replicate here... and those robots don't go running to the Shop Steward every time someone farts sideways.

Both management AND Union must be fair with other in order to work. You cant have a Union membership that, for instance gets paid whether they are working or not. (and that's exactly what was happening). Everyone MUST be willing to go with the flow of the economy... bottom line. Good times? Good money. Bad times? Bad money. It's better than losing your job anyway. But what has happened since the Union organizers came here from RUSSIA was that one side or the other was always screwing up. The corporations screwed the little guy.... the little guy forms a Union and then wind-up screwing the big guy, and by default, himself. There has GOT to be a balance, or the outcome is what we had.

[AmpedNow]

It's amazing to watch the UAW goonsquad try to turn this into a labor issue.

The "shoddy workmanship" appears to be due to wear and tear of a certain part that Toyota had nothing to do with making. It was made by a third party company that they contracted with to install the part on their vehicles.

Let's take this a step further: let's find out who made the part, where they came from, and whether or not that shop was unionized.

One result of this is Toyota may take the route Honda did years ago: manufacture almost all of their parts in-house. The obvious downside to this is excessively expensive parts and repair bills.

Heck, even now, many "Main Street" repair shops still won't touch a Toyota, even though there are so many of them on the road.

Anyway, this is not a result of cheap scab labor. There are too many reliable Toyotas on the road for that to be the case.

Let's also not forget the huge financial hit that they are taking by completely shutting down all of their plants and halting the sales of these vehicles until the problem is fixed. If the shoe was on the other foot, Detroit would likely "fix it as they go along" since the UAW would squawk like crazy if the Big 3 took a similar measure.

[DJSHOCKLEY]

[quote="CoolBreeze"]Talk about one sided....
The Unions were the DEATH KNELL to the American automobile industry. That doesn't mean that management wasnt making really stupid decisions either! There's PLENTY of blame to go around!



Chrysler, GM, Ford = Crap for cars...

Combine all that with a huge focus on building red neck Cadillacs (Big Trucks) that got 15 miles Per gallon, and by the time the oil spike hit, they were toast..

[Lester]

Ford Turns Profit..Without Bail-Out Money!

I like that headline even better.

[Bob Campbell]

Ford Turns Profit..Without Bail-Out Money!

I like that headline even better.

I almost used that one. Both prove my point that the disasters of the US auto industry were primarily caused by inept management.
Bad designs, bad strategic planning, bad marketing, bad management killed GM and Chrysler.
Ford survives and thrives working with the exact same unions and very similar deals. Deals that the others could have made.

Toyota is responsible for the vehicles they make, so shoddy workmanship, whether it be in house or outsourced, is still shoddy workmanship.

Sorry anti-union boys, on this one, you are P'WNED!
I still want to know what the WV ( thought it was Buffalo Springs or some such) plant makes.

[fearpeddler]

the buffalo plant is a toyota plant....

[Bob Campbell]

I know that. Does it make cars or trucks? I think it makes their light trucks doesn't it?

[DJSHOCKLEY]

Ford Turns Profit..Without Bail-Out Money!

I like that headline even better.

I almost used that one. Both prove my point that the disasters of the US auto industry were primarily caused by inept management.
Bad designs, bad strategic planning, bad marketing, bad management killed GM and Chrysler.
Ford survives and thrives working with the exact same unions and very similar deals. Deals that the others could have made.

Toyota is responsible for the vehicles they make, so shoddy workmanship, whether it be in house or outsourced, is still shoddy workmanship.

Sorry anti-union boys, on this one, you are P'WNED!
I still want to know what the WV ( thought it was Buffalo Springs or some such) plant makes.

I also love how some folks are constantly repeating the talking point that Ford didn't take bail out money insinuating that they didnt have to rely on ANY Government help...As usual, the truth is a little more complicated... Part of the reason why Ford didn't want to take TARP money was because it would have placed limits on the pay of their Execs.. Ford, which has taken advantage of government tax breaks since its inception, had no problems allowing its shareholders to lose money while their execs make a killing..

Ford got their bail out money... They just went about it a different way: Ford: Bail Out Free- But Still Begging
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ford-b ... l-begging/

All this, and people

[CoolBreeze]

DJSHOCKLEY ...their evolving lies about global warming is proof positive

So... you believe in the Tooth Fairy AND Global Warming? Case closed.


This history sure has a ring to it...

To ensure the rights of the working class, workers' councils, known as Soviets, sprang up across the country. The Bolsheviks, led by Vladimir Lenin, pushed for socialist revolution in the Soviets and on the streets. Soviet leaders argued that one-party rule was necessary because it ensured that 'capitalist exploitation' would not return to the Soviet Union and that the principles of Democratic Centralism would represent the people's will.

Most anarchists these days have never heard of the Union of Russian Workers of the United States and Canada (UORW). The UORW was founded in New York City in 1908 by refugees from the failed Russian revolution of 1905. The Russian anarchist movement was still in its infancy; the first anarchist groups in the Russian Empire had been founded only in 1903, though over the next few tumultuous years the movement grew to include some 5,000 members before being crushed by governmental repression. The veterans of this movement who formed the UORW drew up a Declaration of Principles that called for:
1. Unification of the organizations of Russian Workers in the United States and Canada for the joint struggle with capital and authority.
2. Support of the liberation movement in Russia.
3. Support of the revolutionary departures of the America workers.

By 1917 the UORW had 10,000 members in more than 50 locals across North America. These included two in Pittsburgh and one each in Duquesne, McKees Rocks and Homestead, which had a combined membership of almost 300.

Comrade Lozovsky says that “it is impossible to accomplish a social revolution outside of the Unions or against their will.” Lenin has also said that the Bolshevist Revolution could not have lasted two weeks without the aid of the Unions.

Oh... and lets not forget that Obama is the Darling of The American Communist Party, who supported him greatly. They commented on his State of the State Speech....

In some ways last night's State of the Union address by President Obama was a virtuoso performance. There were stirring moments, memorable turns of phrase, humor, a defense of activist government, and proposals that will be welcomed, and surely help, millions of people in need.

With the scent of Massachusetts still in the air, the president reasserted his reform agenda and took the fight to the party of obstruction. In polite, nuanced but forceful terms, he chastised the Republican Party.

In powerful oratory, he challenged some of the main ideological talking points of right-wing extremism, reminded everyone that he inherited record deficits and an unprecedented economic mess, and defended the stimulus bill and other recovery measures, including, and unfortunately the unconditional bank bailouts.

One of the high points of the evening was when the president called out the right-wing (and maybe worse) dominated Supreme Court whose members were sitting directly in front of him for their recent decision saying it's OK for corporations to throw money into the election process.

One of the low points was his defense of the escalation of troops in Afghanistan and his threatening tone toward Iran and other "adversaries."

Wow! I've heard that before somewhere also...

[DJSHOCKLEY]

You wasted a lot of space trying to make a claim that Obama is a Commie...

The evidence of the existence of Global Warming and perhaps maybe even the Tooth Fairy, is more compelling..

Case closed..

[AmpedNow]

Toyota is responsible for the vehicles they make, so shoddy workmanship, whether it be in house or outsourced, is still shoddy workmanship.

Um, I think they just proved that by halting sales until the problem is corrected.

Sorry anti-union boys, on this one, you are P'WNED!

And how many times has Detroit pwned itself with shoddy union workmanship?

Sorry, but this is not a labor issue. And it's still not conclusive as to what the actual problem is.

I still want to know what the WV ( thought it was Buffalo Springs or some such) plant makes.

Engines for Corollas, Camrys, and Tacomas, I believe.

Directly support West Virginia jobs. Buy Toyota.

[Mike]

Could be that unions were never a part of the problem in the first place.
They were convienently used as a scapegoat by managers trying to hide their own poor decision-making.

If you'll notice, all those CEO types have a contract that gives them millions every year and perks galore.
Management and their Boards of Directors argue that big dollars and contracts what you need to get and keep the best people.
They just don't want any of the Little People to enjoy the same benefit.

Unless you are a police officer or a fireman, and need protection from whackjobs in the city/county/state government and belong to a union, you are doing a job that will someday be replaced by robots.

[Bob Campbell]

Toyota is responsible for the vehicles they make, so shoddy workmanship, whether it be in house or outsourced, is still shoddy workmanship.

Um, I think they just proved that by halting sales until the problem is corrected.

Sorry anti-union boys, on this one, you are P'WNED!

And how many times has Detroit pwned itself with shoddy union workmanship?

Sorry, but this is not a labor issue. And it's still not conclusive as to what the actual problem is.
.

I agree. This is not a labor issue. Neither was the failure of GM and Chrysler. That's my entire point.

[Hoosier Daddy]

In some ways last night's State of the Union address by President Obama was a virtuoso performance. There were stirring moments, memorable turns of phrase, humor, a defense of activist government, and proposals that will be welcomed, and surely help, millions of people in need.

With the scent of Massachusetts still in the air, the president reasserted his reform agenda and took the fight to the party of obstruction. In polite, nuanced but forceful terms, he chastised the Republican Party.

In powerful oratory, he challenged some of the main ideological talking points of right-wing extremism, reminded everyone that he inherited record deficits and an unprecedented economic mess, and defended the stimulus bill and other recovery measures, including, and unfortunately the unconditional bank bailouts.

One of the high points of the evening was when the president called out the right-wing (and maybe worse) dominated Supreme Court whose members were sitting directly in front of him for their recent decision saying it's OK for corporations to throw money into the election process.

One of the low points was his defense of the escalation of troops in Afghanistan and his threatening tone toward Iran and other "adversaries."

Everything said there is true. Everything. All of it.
There is no reference to communism or Obama being a communist or Obama instituting communist policy.
Perhaps a number of political parties have issues with how Republicans have handled their eight years in Washington.
Perhaps a growing number of Americans, even those you despise, have issues with the GOP extremism and their 24 hour hate machines.
Perhaps a growing number of Americans want our government to help our own people, rather than help U.S. corporations and rebuild the third world.