The Ethical Case for Boycotting Chrysler and GM

[AmpedNow]

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/ ... tin_1.html

I will argue that the unprecedented action by the current administration in manipulating the bankruptcies of Chrysler and GM, and in effect nationalizing the companies, is egregiously unethical by every one of these major ethical perspectives. For this reason, I believe that this action makes it morally imperative for Americans to boycott these socialized companies.

Awesome read. I tend to agree...

[Bob Campbell]

Totally false logic, completely inept analogies. Let's see, you WANT more Americans to be out of work because you don't like what saved their jobs?
Just admit you don't want anything the current administration does to work.
Better yet, keep up this kind of attack. By 2012 there'll be 11 Republican Congressmen and 4 Republican Senators.
Sad. You're probably also upset by the 1.8 billion dollar profit the government made off the first 68 billion in TARP money that is now being repaid. And by government I mean you and me.

[AmpedNow]

I think the biggest problem this guy has with this mess is how much control the UAW wound up with, and the fact that Ford and Toyota will likely be their next targets for forced unionization. You can slice this nine ways from Sunday, but the UAW's incessant demands is what led to this mess in the first place. With that said, there was more than enough ineptitude at the top of these companies for failing to read consumer trends and staying behind the times. A perfect storm of incompetence, so to speak.

For the record, I voted for Obama, so I don't wish he fails. Too much is at stake here... But so far he's proven to be an economic buffoon. He can't even get his own unemployment projections right. And honestly, I don't think that really matters to him.

Thousands of jobs were going to be lost no matter what. We are in a severe recession. But apparently, certain jobs are more "important" than others...

I won't go so far to call GM and Chrysler "commie mobiles", but I'll definitely never buy from either one now. After the environuts get their way, they will be making nothing but glorified, zero emission golf carts anyway.

If anything, this makes me more partial to Toyota... Imagine being the poster company of union hatred, yet losing billions like everyone else because nobody's buying cars. Then you wake up one day and realize that the U.S. government is your biggest competitor. Then to top it off, this same government has pretty much given the "holy" blessing for the union thugs to come after you with pitchforks and torches in hand.

Damn it suck to be them now. No wonder they've been so quiet...

[Tom Taggart]

Watch for Fiat to dump--err--"import" thousands of re-branded inventory that they couldn't sell in the EU. The remaining Chrysler dealers will be coerced into carrying these cars (as well as surplus Chrysler inventory), while GMAC (also part of the government now) will provide the easy money to move this merchandise at fire sale rates.

Once Fiat has cleaned up both there inventory and the Chrysler inventory, they will say Ciao! and head for the exit.

[Bob Campbell]

Fyi, Ford has been unionized for over 75 years.
At least with the UAW, car people will have a voice. Chrysler has been run by a venture capital firm for the last few years.
Uh...complain all you want, but low emission, high mileage cars are the future. Get on board or get left behind. The era of the gas guzzling, poorly built car is over.
GM and Chrysler, well, maybe not so much Chrysler, build high quality cars. GM was done in by an overreaching management that lost focus on its core product, cars.
Obama's economic buffoonery seems to be pulling us out of the worst of the recession, stock market is now up or even for the year, Tarp money is being repaid with interest.

Did you really think he was going to get it all fixed in a couple months? The sheer inertia of the largest economy on the planet means it takes months to make even incremental change. There are no magic wands here. It took 8 years to screw it up, it'll take a few to fix.

[AmpedNow]

Fyi, Ford has been unionized for over 75 years.

You're right. I was thinking of something else... Replace Ford with Honda, Hyundai, whatever.

At least with the UAW, car people will have a voice.

No problem with that, as long as the workers overwhelmingly vote them in, and not have them forced upon them.

I don't think Toyota plants are exactly OSHA-violating misery pits full of indentured servants. If they're happy with the company, then there is nothing "evil" for the UAW to "save" them from...

Uh...complain all you want, but low emission, high mileage cars are the future. Get on board or get left behind. The era of the gas guzzling, poorly built car is over.

I'm not complaining about that one bit. In fact, I fully support the new 2016 CAFE standards. Hybrid technology is already here, and will get better over the next seven years. Along with electric and who knows what else by then.

Anything that gives us leverage over OPEC, including drilling, I'm all for.

Imagine an SUV that averages 50 mpg with $1.25 per gallon gasoline. Best of both worlds. And energy independence.

Still having problems getting my mind around a hybrid Camero or Challenger, but there's probably no other option, lest the "carbon tax" exceeds the price of the car...

Obama's economic buffoonery seems to be pulling us out of the worst of the recession, stock market is now up or even for the year, Tarp money is being repaid with interest.

I think the "first 100 days" was a decent buffer between whose economy it "really" is. It became Obama's on day 101, IMO.

With that said, it's still to early to tell how all of this spending will affect the economy long term. We'll know much more by the holiday season... But at the very least, I don't see how we avoid a period of rapid inflation next year, with all of this Fed cash flooding the economy.

Also, oil prices are rapidly climbing again, when the timing couldn't be worse. $4 per gallon gas is the last thing we need right now.

Did you really think he was going to get it all fixed in a couple months? The sheer inertia of the largest economy on the planet means it takes months to make even incremental change. There are no magic wands here. It took 8 years to screw it up, it'll take a few to fix.

Strange, but I remember the DOW briefly hitting 14,000 during the horrible Bush year of 2007.

We may never see it that high again in our lifetimes, literally.

But, yeah. We're years away from a full recovery. There's still too much economic cause and effect yet to work through the system.

The good news is it seems we just barely dodged a full-blown depression, but we still have a protracted recession to get through.

Which means nobody will be buying cars anytime soon.

[cgarison]

Did you really think he was going to get it all fixed in a couple months? The sheer inertia of the largest economy on the planet means it takes months to make even incremental change. There are no magic wands here. It took 8 years to screw it up, it'll take a few to fix.

Good analogy.

[Ace Purple]

low emission, high mileage cars are the future. Get on board or get left behind.

I strongly agree. Eight miles to the gallon when gas is north of $4/gallon (as it was last year) isn't going to cut it.

[Jet Black]

I'm so upset over this subject I can nary comment.

However, to those of you who expect human-killing CAFE or other government legislation to deliver the magic coup du grace to the first law of thermodynamics, you make me weep.

[Arp2]

There is such a stunning level of myth in this thread that I have no idea where to even begin. So I won't....it's just WAY too much. Keep trying to learn, but realize that "the news" is really just "the propaganda" and is full of this kind of myth..."the news" is not a source for learning!

One thing: NEVER equate "the government" and "you and me!" Good lord!

And another: The "Obama Economy" actually began on November 5th of last year. That's the day businesses all across the nation had to go with plans to dump tons of employees and unemployment began to explode....go look it up, yourself....something like 85% of the layoffs in this downturn occurred after that date. (Those with better memories will recall that I told you here that those plans were being made should the country fall for the Marxist revolutionary talk.)

That was also the day people started asking each other, "You headin' for Ireland, Hong Kong, Singapore, China, or Australia?" By the way, Hong Kong is not a good choice right this second, and Dubai's not as hot as it was. Dark horse candidates include The Netherlands and, believe it or not, France.

One more thing: "energy independence" will never occur unless we somehow merge with both Mexico and Canada or lose our freedom of movement....and, of course, the latter actually has real decent odds under this regime. And JB's got it right -- only in Star Trek do you hear "I canna change the laws of physics" one minute and "well done, Mr Scott" the next.

[AmpedNow]

To whom are you referring?

Somehow, I managed to be both a right wing nutjob and a liberal commie, all in the same thread.

As an indie, I dont give a fuck about either side.

I just want solutions.

[Bob Campbell]

Arp, can you get me some of whatever you're smoking/inhaling/injecting? It must be really good shit. Your fantasy world is awesome dude.

[Arp2]

If the paradigm is one or more of the miscellaneous forms of Marxism, then it is only logical the person advocating freedom, liberty, and responsibility would seem "odd."

The actual fantasy world is what you've bought into. Given your admitted history of drug use, no one should be surprised.


And, for those not familiar with why Bob and HD always respond with ridicule rather than addressing the actual content, you'll want to note this instruction to leftists from Marxist organizer Saul Alinsky: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage."

The problem is that we know the game.

[Bob Campbell]

Spoken like a man who has never read the "Communist Manifesto" nor studied the history of Marxism and Socialism. It's just not that way Arp. What is happening in this country has happened more than once before. See the Great Depression, Civil War, WWII, Chrysler bailout under Reagan. There's nothing new under the sun. It's just that the right is so extraordinarily bitter over the nation's wholesale rejection of their philosophy that they feel they must attack anything and everything.
If only the leadership( if they ever find any) will keep doing it, they'll guarantee a Democratic majority for the rest of the century. The nation is WAY ahead of where Republicans stand right now and you can pander to the radical base all you want, but you won't win any elections with it.
Should anyone on the right ever actually present a course of action other than "Reduce taxes!",they may have a chance to become a relevant voice again.
I admit it, change is scary. It's especially scary to those who continue to hope that America can somehow return to whatever they imagine "the good old days" were. But change is what makes us great. And there is no growth in retreat into the past, only stagnation.

[Arp2]

Note that Bob, following orders, continues to try to ridicule but shifts his target in an attempt to keep readers duped. Unable, he still doesn't address a single statement I made. And why do leftists always pretend to be showing concern for the liberty-lovers that will permanently put them out of business? Attempted triangulation? Probably.

No, it is the ways of Marx that represent returning to a failed past. Actually, they don't even qualify as a "failed past;" they're a "never-succeeded-anywhere-at-any-time-in-the-history-of-the-world past." They are beliefs that violate logic, math, science, psychology, and more. They are beliefs that always result in ever-growing suffering and death. It's possible for many to temporarily fall for them, but only the evil or foolish believe or pretend to really believe in them.

[Tom Taggart]

Save all these posts until the middle of November 2012. Then re-read.

1. Chrysler will be gone, Fiat will have abandoned the U.S.market once again, Jeep will be owned by someone else after a REAL bankruptcy and sale.

2. GM, and some of the GM brands will still be around, but with majority ownership by another company. Tata Motors, anyone?

3. We will have a mix of hybrids, and imported diesels, but only after massive recalls/lawsuits by hybrid owners who find out they need a massive and expensive battery change at around 100,000 miles. Pressure to meet CAFE standards will bring about more sensible taxation of diesel fuel, and the importation of small diesels from Europe that can easily meet >30 mpg standards in reasonable sized passenger cars.

4. The various schemes to force massive investment in solar and wind power will come apart with massive revelations of scandal (relating to government subsidies). Not to mention acrimonious battles with the "environmentalists" over the location of said wind and solar power farms.

5. The same "environmentalists" will still keep the US from investing in no-carbon emission clean nuclear power. Europe to be going nuclear in face of continued natural gas black mail by Russia and mounting costs for other forms of power generation.

6. Rising electrical rates will result in the rollback of any carbon tax --assuming that it gets passed in the first place. One house of Congress will be Republican by 2010. The Obama administration will fall apart in the face of massive scandals, and he will either: not run, be defeated in a primary by Hilary Clinton; or lose in November 2012.

[genlock]

At any rate world ends in December, 2012.
Should we even allow our employers to withhold taxes that year?
Save money on 2013 inspection stickers too.

[Arp2]

2. GM, and some of the GM brands will still be around, but with majority ownership by another company. Tata Motors, anyone?

Smart. Here's a scenario: Obama administration continues to roll up industry after industry, faces growing criticism for obvious Marxist takeover strategy, temporarily deflects criticism by stating it will turn back out seized industries, but those industries all wind up under the ownership of the Chinese as Obama claims to have come up with a "revolutionary" plan to deal with the deficit, debt, and massive inflation by turning over these "assets" the gubmint just "had to" "wind up with" to significant holders and buyers of the gubmint debt. The elites will gush over the "brilliance" of the scheme, calling it the least painful option, but, within a matter of mere months, the fastest-growing occupation will "surprisingly" be "Mandarin-English translator" as America's new owners and bosses find the need to communicate to their new minions.

4. The various schemes to force massive investment in solar and wind power will come apart with massive revelations of scandal (relating to government subsidies).

Last year, I posted here an article about the investability of these kinds of companies. The gist was that only the first and second investors will make money -- the first will get out richer once the initial hype is done, and the second will get out as the first subsidies arrive; after that, reality will set in.

Gore and "the select few" in his hedge fund represent the first group, of course. And, yes, Gore is one of those "evil hedge fund managers" and is on the verge of making himself a billionaire and his cronies quite rich on the back of his wacky hypothesis that is shown false day after day.

One house of Congress will be Republican by 2010. The Obama administration will fall apart in the face of massive scandals, and he will either: not run, be defeated in a primary by Hilary Clinton; or lose in November 2012.

So you believe we'll continue to have elections and those elections will have meaning....interesting assumption! We can hope you're right, but evidence to the contrary is already piling up.

[Bob Campbell]

Following orders, Arp continues to spout talking points of "Marxism" , "Socialism" and "government takeovers". Please, you got your lines, I got mine. I just like to think I pay attention a little bit more to reality as opposed bizarre conspiracy theories that have not a single founding in the real world.

[Lester]

Well, there is no legal precedent for a U.S. President to force a CEO to resign... and it happened. He didn't ship him off to Siberia though, so I'm torn on what that means.