Stocks down 400

[Jet Black]

Possibly, but every "expert" I hear talk about it seems to think the CRA loans, backed by Freddie & Fannie, more or less forced on the market who would otherwise NEVER have given loans to bad risks, is what precipitated the crisis. Lehman had their own culpability, but the number of FM & FM -backed bad loans they were suddenly stuck with seems to be what scuttled their craft. Same with the other investment banks. Don't be fooled, I only know about this what I read and hear, but I'm trying to understand, and it all seems to keep coming back to the same root problem - socialist Democrats want to toy with they system. If the system was left alone, it would have ran as normal. We need rules and regulations, but minimal. It wasn't greed on Wall Street that got us into this, it was - well-intentioned or corrupt, as one may believe - this artificial screwing with the loan business.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Conservative Republicans always start this conversation with a laundry list of free-market ills and then accuse Democrats of starting/enabling/helping every crime and mis-step known to humanity in an attempt to assign and shift the blame away from the free-market players.

It ~MUST~ be true because Faux News said so.

The causes of problems we face today were skillfully crafted by the financial free-market insiders; people who knew the system and the rules like the back of their hand and knew what needed to be changed or removed to allow more Dead Presidents to fall in their own pockets. The average American citizen isn't privy to that knowledge and we all got taken for a ride. Lobbyists convinced lawmakers of both parties and even the Executive branch to go along with it, and I lay a lot of the blame there, too. Regulation, oversight, and scrutiny can be good things if used properly. An unbridled, out-of-control free market is perhaps one of the most dangerous animals out there.

Carry on.

[genlock]

Liberal Democrats always start the arguments with a diatribe on the "free market".
Usually they argue that any free market hurts the country as a whole and regulation is necessary
to prevent the "few" from ruining the life experience for the rest of "us". A solution to the problem from liberals
is overwhelming regulation, enforced by bloated government, run by liberals who tax the hell out of any enterprise
that happens to make money. Those taxes are used to support ever growing government and those people
that are too stupid, lazy or incompetent to make a life all by themselves.
To get back to broadcasting, a fine example of regulation gone wild is the present infatuation by the FCC on the public file.
The public file is an exercise in clerking and is of no benefit to the public in any way.

[Jet Black]

I see you point your usual finger at Republican, Rich Devils, and Fox News.... But offer no explanation.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Common sense regulation.
Consumer safeguards.
Enough of a free market for business to prosper.
Not enough deregulation to allow what just happened to happen again.
There is a happy medium, you know.
Just like the environment and going "green".
We tried it your way and it failed miserably.
There you go. Both questions answered.

[cgarison]

Possibly, but every "expert" I hear talk about it seems to think the CRA loans, backed by Freddie & Fannie, more or less forced on the market who would otherwise NEVER have given loans to bad risks, is what precipitated the crisis.

I really do not think that is true.

Personally, I blame banks who paid loan officers based on the amount of mortgage paper they turned over. If a banker was having a slow month, they would call some victim that they could convince to take another mortgage or re-finance a mortgage and put money in the customers pocket.

Some banks did not comply with CRA and are in trouble. Some banks complied with CRA and they are not in trouble.

In short, the cause of the issue now it that the insurance issued by AIG to back all the bad loans written could not cover the losses being racked up as people began defaulting on their homes and the markets collapsed in the rust belt due to unemployment.

[AmpedNow]

I like the video of Franks and O'Reilly where he accepts ZERO responsibility for this happening.

ZERO

Heh. Worth posting...

Agreed. The question of commission or omition is moot. Anybody involved, throw 'em out.

Absolutely.

I'm also way, way non-plussed with McCain's suprise 300b mortgage adjustment bailout plan from last night's debate. Our only two choices in this election now appear to be a leftist disguised as a left-moderate and a center-moderate disguised as a right-moderate. Whatever happened to real Conservatives? We need one now. God, but I miss Reagan.

The entire political culture of this country has slowly trended left for some time now. It seems to just happen over time.

I have to wonder if Reagan was just stumbling onto the scene in 2008, would he be considered a radical?

Conversely, Obama running in 1980 would be a joke. Even the dems would've tarred and feathered him as a full-blown socialist.

Now, he will likely be our next president...

Liberal Democrats always start the arguments with a diatribe on the "free market".
Usually they argue that any free market hurts the country as a whole and regulation is necessary
to prevent the "few" from ruining the life experience for the rest of "us". A solution to the problem from liberals
is overwhelming regulation, enforced by bloated government, run by liberals who tax the hell out of any enterprise
that happens to make money. Those taxes are used to support ever growing government and those people
that are too stupid, lazy or incompetent to make a life all by themselves.

For the record, I'm not a liberal democrat, at least in the traditional sense. I don't have a "tax & spend" mentality with most things, but I do believe that government is responsible to correct any imbalances in the free market system where either (1.) many people are being affected, due to said imbalances, and/or (2.) the free market refuses to do anything about it, because the status quo is more profitable for those in control.

This has become a horrible imbalance in the system, to say the least.

Health care is another example of this. The free market ignoring the obvious for so long has guaranteed us a universal-type health care system in this country eventually. It may take another 10-15 years, but it's coming.

Basically, I say give the free market fist dibs. If it can't, or won't, fix something, then it defaults back to the government.

Who else is going to do it?

[Lester]

But we have universal health care... just ask any of our millions of illegal, undocumented, uninsured visitors. You walk into a hospital sick, you get treatment, regardless of the illness. No one goes without health care.

And as with our market, the day "universal health care" appears, and R&D for medical research goes away as a result, every nation on the planet that has socialized medicine will begin to suffer once America is no longer innovating treatments that they "steal".

[Hoosier Daddy]

But we have universal health care... just ask any of our millions of illegal, undocumented, uninsured visitors. You walk into a hospital sick, you get treatment, regardless of the illness. No one goes without health care.

This isn't only illegals. It's also anyone who can't afford to pay or is on welfare.
Almost every ER is required to provide treatment to their level of care regardless of the ability to pay.
9-1-1 ambulances have become taxicabs with a bed.
ERs are 24 hour free urgent care centers for every sniffle, cough, cold, rash, and fever.
This is one of the greatest issues we'll have to eventually deal with.
Our country cannot continue to offer cradle-to-grave, a-la-carte medical care to everyone who wants it with no regard to cost.
One statistic shows 80% of a person's lifetime medical expenses occur in the last 36 months of life.
Will we provide a $60,000 heart valve replacement to an 80 year old so he/she can live another 11 months confined to a hospital bed?
Will we spend upwards of a half million dollars caring for a deformed, addicted, mentally retarded crack baby that dies at age 4?
Will there be a penalty of some kind for self-induced medical problems like lung cancer caused by smoking or diabetes and heart problems caused by a lifetime of obesity?
The health care system -- whether totally private, totally government run, or a mixture -- cannot pay for everything for everybody forever.
Tough ethical, medical, financial, and legal decisions lie ahead.

[genlock]

Cramer said 8650.
DOW is at 8600 as I type.
Cgarrison says 8000
Maybe friday is the day.

[The People's DJ]

Hmmm...I guess Chuck can't stand up. Maybe..I don't..maybe Old Joe didn't notice that Chuck was in a WHEELCHAIR!

[Oldiesdude]

Wonder how everyone will be feel if we make it to FEB 17, 2009. When all news can be cut and snipped in seconds to do what ever is needed. Can't do that with Analog. George Orwell was only off a few years.

[genlock]

Wonder how everyone will be feel if we make it to FEB 17, 2009. When all news can be cut and snipped in seconds to do what ever is needed. Can't do that with Analog. George Orwell was only off a few years.

I don't understand.

[Oldiesdude]

Genlock wrote:

I don't understand.

Don't worry ....... you will.

[Bob Campbell]

Don't tell anyone that they can do that already.

[genlock]

Don't tell anyone that they can do that already.

I have understood that for some decades.

[AmpedNow]

Cramer said 8650.
DOW is at 8600 as I type.
Cgarrison says 8000
Maybe friday is the day.

I'm sticking with 7600-ish. Maybe lower.

This thing could drop sub-7000 before it's all over with, depending on how fast the bailout and investor confidence kicks in.

On the upside, oil is rapidly falling >$80.

[Bob Campbell]

Cheaper gas will mean we can drive our SUVs to the bread lines.

[Jet Black]

Jeepy, what can I do, as a regular American ig-noo-rant hillbilly, to help us get out of this? Yeah, vote against Obama, I understand; but what else?

[Bob Campbell]

Things you can do.

1. don't panic. You only lose money if you sell or withdraw.

2. vote Obama.